Questions tagged [just-intonation]

For questions related to tuning systems that privilege justly tuned intervals as opposed to equal temperament, meantone temperament, etc. Questions will likely also require the tuning tag.

Just Intonation is a term that encompasses a wide variety of different tuning systems which aim to create the most perfectly consonant intervals possible. In accordance with the natural frequency ratios generated within the harmonic series, many just intonation tuning systems aim for simple mathematical integer frequency ratios between the notes in the tuning system; for example, JI systems often tune the interval of a perfect fifth with a frequency ratio of 3:2 in accordance with the exact 3:2 ratio between the 3rd and 2nd harmonic in the overtone series.

One common obstacle to any justly-intonated music is that it is mathematically impossible for both the 2:1 octave and the 3:2 perfect fifth to remain perfectly in tune with each other over a series of interval leaps. As proof, consider that 2^x = 3^y only when x and y both equal zero, meaning that only after zero octave leaps and zero perfect fifth leaps will the two notes be on the same frequency. In other words, 12 perfect fifths up from a note should equal an octave multiple of that note, since we will have cycled through every note in the 12-note system. (3/2)^12 = 129.75, meaning that after 12 perfect fifths we have a total ratio of about 130 times the starting note's frequency. Unfortunately, this supposed octave multiple seven octaves up from the starting note should then also be equal to (2)^7, which is equal to exactly 128. Since 129.75 is slightly greater than 128, the 3:2 perfect fifths don't meet up with the 2:1 octaves.

This occurs for many other JI intervals, and thus almost every just intonation tuning system will have many (mathematically) consonant intervals at the cost of a few extremely dissonant intervals, such as the famed "wolf fifth" that aligns the very last perfect fifth to the octave in one of the most well-known JI systems.

Just intonation stands in stark contrast to the relatively newer Equal Temperament, which "tempers" the mathematically pure intervals by setting a standard semitone interval as 2^(1/12):1 so that all twelve notes in the temperament are equidistant from their neighbors and that the octave is set at exactly 2:1. From a JI perspective, equally tempered intervals (aside from the octave) are ever so slightly out of tune, but there are no especially out-of-tune notes such as the "wolf fifth" since all intervals are multiples of the same common frequency ratio.

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Why Is Just Intonation Impractical?

I've read about the debate of "just intonation" vs 12-tone equal temperament. And nowhere it was clearly stated why just intonation is impractical. Here are my assumptions. Please let me know if I am correct. Just intonation frequencies are based on…
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With modern electronic technology is temperament unnecessary?

I am a Physics student but also love math and music, and know a little bit about tuning because it is related to mathematics. So as far as I understand, Just Intonation is more consonant than Temperaments. The major problem of Just Intonation is…
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Should the dominant-seventh chord in just intonation use 9:5 for its seventh, or rather 16:9?

It may be just out of habit, what with the 12-edo temperament all around us, but anyway: I find the dominant-seventh rendition 20:25:30:36 sounds extremely harsh. In particular, the tritone from the third to the seventh is so wide that it raises…
leftaroundabout
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What are the characteristic intervals or scales of 13-limit harmony and beyond?

I've been studying and really getting into the Extended Just Intonation music of composers like Ben Johnston and Kyle Gann. I've started trying to explore the sort of intervals and scales that are available to a composer as they move to different…
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Why does "just intonation" make it so different keys have different characteristics?

Introduction So, the "just intonation" system introduces a scale where every note is aimed to be a more harmonious low-integer ratio (harmonic) relative to the fundamental. In the case of C, the scale is characterised by the following ratios (taken…
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Was equal temperament caused by the invention of the piano, or was it inevitable?

Historically, which key a piece of music was written in made a big difference. Toccata and Fugue in D minor for instance had to be played in that key or it wouldn't sound right. But over the last couple of centuries, tonality has become less and…
Ray Butterworth
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How did Pythagoras and Ptolemy measure the relative pitch of musical notes?

Both Pythagoras and Ptolemy believed that the intervals between notes in music should be ratios of small integer numbers. This is known as Just Intonation. Pythagoras liked them to derived from octaves (2:1) and perfect fifths (3:2), which is…
Electric-Gecko
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Difference between equal temperament and just intonation

I am learning Indian classical music and learned about just intonation and equal temperament. I want to know the difference between them. I know that Indian classical music uses just intonation and Western music uses equal temperament. Can you give…
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Why is the Major-Minor Scale unused?

I tried to make the "best" 7-tone scale in just intonation. Specifically: The tones must be alongside the equal temperament. (7-TET here) The tones must have the least maximum harmonic distance. This results in the following tones (based on…
Dannyu NDos
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What just intonation intervals are appropriate for the double-harmonic scale?

In musical traditions where something like the double-harmonic scale (e.g. C D♭ E F G A♭ B C) is used, and tuned with some kind of just intonation, what just intervals are preferred for the scale degrees in those traditions? Considering it as two…
Theodore
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What do you call a scale with 19 notes per octave? Howabout 17 notes per octave?

I know that a 12-note scale (as in the currently ubiquitous 12 equal temperament) is called "chromatic". In a chromatic system, there are sharps and/or flats, but no neighboring sharps and flats. What is the name of the scale that includes all the…
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Just intonation within a piece

Say I have a piece in C major. I want just intonation and select pitches for C major. What should happen if the piece stays on an F major triad? Should I switch the intonation to F major for that chord? Does it depend on the function, if it's a new…
Gauthier
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Double Sharps in Just Intonation. The mathematics?

So I'm experimenting around and I'm creating a small little thing in C#### minor just because. I understand the mathematics of C#### in Pythagorean and Equal Temperment music systems but how do you represent multiple accidentals in the Just…
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Double bass harmonics are slightly flat?

Here, Lauren Pierce claims that she doesn't use harmonics to tune because they are "slightly flat". Why is this? Is she referring to just intonation vs equal temperament, or inharmonicity, or something else? I'm even more confused because she also…
abelian
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Why are bagpipes tuned using just intonation?

To my knowledge, the Great Highland Bagpipes are tuned using just intonation rather than equal tempered tuning. Why is this? What is the advantage of just intonation?
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