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I tried to make the "best" 7-tone scale in just intonation. Specifically:

  1. The tones must be alongside the equal temperament. (7-TET here)
  2. The tones must have the least maximum harmonic distance.

This results in the following tones (based on C):

C(1/1) D(8/7) E(5/4) F(4/3) G(3/2) A♭(8/5) B♭(7/4)

According to Wikipedia, this is the Major Minor Scale. Despite that this is the approximation of 7-TET with the least maximum harmonic distance (49 from D to B♭), I've never found any music composed in this scale.

Is there any theoretical reason why Major Minor Scale is unused? (Regardless of its temperament)

Some_Guy
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Dannyu NDos
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2 Answers2

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Modern harmony revolves around tonic-dominant relationships, and part of what makes a V-I or V-i sound convincing to our ears is that the leading tone goes up a half-step to the tonic. In the common-practice era, this is why we see so many examples in minor that seem to be well described by the idea of a melodic minor scale. On the way up, we want to hear that half-step. The scale you're describing doesn't have that, because (in the key of C) it has a Bb rather than a B natural.

To ears that have gotten used to the major-minor system, I suspect that listeners would tend to hear this scale as being in F minor. The notes, F G Ab Bb C D E, are the notes of the ascending melodic minor scale. You can build chords using these scale degrees, and in fact it's fairly common to do so in jazz harmony. You get triads that are i, IV, and V7, which sound pretty familiar to most people's ears.

Of course, you could very easily set up a piece of music in which this scale would clearly be in C. You start and end the melody on C, the bass has heavy-handed emphasis on alternating between C and G, and so on. Then it would probably sound to most people like a piece of music that was in C, but with modal mixtures for effect.

Modal mixture is perfectly fine, it's used frequently, and listeners easily accept it if it's done competently. But people don't normally compose music by picking some set of 7 tones and then building everything on that as some kind of rigid structure that determines everything about the harmony and melody.

The tones must have the least maximum harmonic distance.

Could you explain what you mean by this, or point us to a source that defines this terminology? Is this something to do with psychoacoustic models of dissonance, such as tonotopic models (Kameoka and Kuriyagawa)?

  • By 'harmonic distance', I mean the product of numerator and denominator of ratio of just ratios, ignoring factors of 2. Here, D(8/7) and B♭(7/4) has ratio 49/32, resulting in harmonic distance 49. – Dannyu NDos Oct 21 '18 at 23:25
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"The tones must have the least maximum harmonic distance."

Is this a requirement that you have discovered to produce good, interesting, dramatic, beautiful etc. music? Apparently few composers agree with you!

To answer your question, there is rarely a theoretical reason why certain notes or scales SHOULD be used. (If we discount the 'composing by numbers' fad of the early 20th century anyway.) You can invent a 'theory' to justify ANY notes. Theory rather categorises and catalogues sounds and patterns that have been discovered to sound good.

Laurence
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    I wish you stopped posting your standard “theory sucks” comment as an answer. Yeah, this is a valid position, a valid _opinion_, but it's not helpful for questions about well-confined theoretical models, and it disregards the fact that the music lots of people prefer _does_ stick for much of the time to rules that can be explained very well with simple mathematical ratios. Whereas that “‘composing by numbers’ fad” illustrates pretty well that rules which are made up for _no_ good physical reasons work rather less well, going by popularity of the thus composed music. – leftaroundabout Oct 21 '18 at 14:53
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    I can't help it if so many questions here are based on a false premise. They crave 'rules' but then discover that the music they prefer doesn't obey them. If the point isn't sinking in, it needs re-stating. – Laurence Oct 21 '18 at 15:09
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    Or maybe it needs consideration of whether it's simply not a good point. If questions ask “why is _X_ contradicting rule _Y_”, this doesn't necessarily imply that _Y_ is worthless, but merely that _X_ requires additionally (or instead) a different / more refined theory. It's perfectly fine if you're not interested in such refinement, but why does it bother you if other people are interested in it? – leftaroundabout Oct 21 '18 at 16:05
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    @leftaroundabout it's not "theory sucks" it's that "trying to make music by applying oversimplified theoretical frameworks stripped of their actual context in real music is a fruitless endeavour". And if it seems like there are a lot of well meaning novices who with a fundamental misunderstanding about how music theory works who need that message, and a lot of them seem to find it helpful. – Some_Guy Oct 21 '18 at 20:42
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    @Some_Guy but that's _your interpretation_ of what those novices think. I see it in another way, namely they search for _what the right framework is_ into which their ideas would fit properly. And that's the way to go IMO, not just saying “theory doesn't apply here, you're on your own”. _Some_ theory will probably apply, if not the standard one they've already learned. – leftaroundabout Oct 21 '18 at 20:52
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    ...Sure it is also possible to take paths that _nobody_ has ventured before, but just going from “everything in a single diatonic scale and **Ⅴ⁷** always resolves to **Ⅰ** with CP voice leading” straight to “you can use any combination of notes” is skipping an awful lot of stuff (though actually it's _still_ pretty restrictive if by “any note” you mean “any note that can be played in 12-edo). The more well-defined your theory background is, the more effect you can achieve by then breaking out of the system at exactly the right spot. – leftaroundabout Oct 21 '18 at 20:53
  • @leftaroundabout of course I would never say "theory doesn't apply here", I disagree strongly with that attitude, and I think it's the other side to the misconception of what theory *is*, since theory is essentially descriptive and explanatory. "There are rules, but sometimes we break them" is obviously wrong. To be honest, it seems like we're pretty much advocating for the same thing. You may have seen Laurence write a "theory doesn't apply here" comment elsewhere, in which case I wouldn't agree with it, but I don't think that's what's being said in the answer here. – Some_Guy Oct 21 '18 at 21:06
  • also my first comment should read: if it seems like there are a lot of answers to that effect it's because there are also a lot of well meaning novices with a fundamental misunderstanding about how music theory works who need that message, and a lot of them seem to find it helpful. – Some_Guy Oct 21 '18 at 21:08
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    @leftaroundabout I agree with you, but this particular post isn't the best one on which to challenge the "If it sounds good, it is good" answers. On Meta, perhaps? Also, Lawrence Payne is by no means the only one doing this, and he does often have good answers that DO explain theory concepts. – user45266 Oct 21 '18 at 21:35
  • To be honest, I wanted to get a theoretical explanation why major, minor and chromatic scale are so widespread, and enumerated 1-TET, 2-TET, and so on. And was surprised that resulting 7-TET was neither major nor minor. – Dannyu NDos Oct 21 '18 at 23:11
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    These answers almost always miss the point. This is pretty much just someone asking a question and responding with it doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter explain why it doesn't matter and in what cases it does matter. Nothing in this answer brings anyone closer to the answer asked in this question and pushes any theoretical concepts aside. – Dom Oct 22 '18 at 03:40
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    He set up a definition of a 'best' scale. He's been answered that the characteristics he feels are important, aren't. Hence no-one uses his 'best' scale. 'My ideal woman has thumbs precisely the same length as her ears. Why is this not recognised as a universal definition of beauty?' Because IT DOESN'T MATTER! Would you like us to waste some time trying to prove a negative? – Laurence Oct 23 '18 at 15:09