If we make predictions with a new theory, but cannot verify its internal mechanisms and causal processes, but find that the predictions turn out to be accurate every single time, is this enough evidence for the theory? Let's assume that the predictions being correct by chance/the null hypothesis are possible but just extremely improbable otherwise.
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4There is no "just from", "internal mechanisms and causal processes" are part of what the theory predicts. If they are untestable that puts a question mark over the theory even if its other predictions are successful. For example, Bohmian mechanics postulates "Bohmian particles" to explain quantum effects by classical mechanisms. Its observable predictions are equivalent to those of quantum mechanics, so "accurate every single time". But since nobody observed "internal mechanisms" with "Bohmian particles" it is not "proven". The same criticism is made of multiverse and string theories. – Conifold Jun 15 '23 at 00:21
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There's a very-well known 3.5 century-old "theory" that says yes to the OP's yes-no question. – Agent Smith Jun 15 '23 at 01:57
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3Usually, a new theory will be considered a "better alternative" wrt a previous one when it explains all known facts already explained by the previous theory AND explain some "puzzling" known facts (facts that the previous theory does not explain) AND predicts some unknown facts. *Contra*: string theory. – Mauro ALLEGRANZA Jun 15 '23 at 05:35
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3"Can a new theory be proven...". No theories are ever ***proven***, since they can always be replaced by better theories. Having said that, well-substantiated theories are *colloquially* "proven". Also, "wrong" theories can still be right: https://hermiene.net/essays-trans/relativity_of_wrong.html – RonJohn Jun 15 '23 at 08:28
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Reger faith fashion fantasy by Roger penrose – Reine Abstraktion Jun 15 '23 at 09:06
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"Stuff happens" is a proven theory that makes predictions. But the reason we disregard it isn't because we don't perfectly know why (we never perfectly know why). We disregard it because it's not that useful. – candied_orange Jun 15 '23 at 16:42
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I think you need to make the distinction between predictions of previously "understood" phenomena, previously known but not understood phenomena, and predictions of unknown phenomena. The difference between them being the progressive elimination of human bias: You can design increasingly convoluted theories to force your theory to match known observations. – DKNguyen Jun 15 '23 at 19:19
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1@AgentSmith Newton's *Laws*? If not, then what are you referring to? If so, then, as mentioned they are Laws, not theories. What's the difference? Laws are "just math that works", but provide no explanation. – RonJohn Jun 17 '23 at 18:07
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@RonJohn, danke for clearing that up. – Agent Smith Jun 18 '23 at 03:07
4 Answers
The ideal standard against which all induction can be evaluated is Solomonoff's theory of inductive inference. This is Bayesian inference with a minimum description length prior.
In Solomonoff's theory, we are first given some observations. We suppose that the observations were generated by some computer program, but we want to know which program generated them.
To do this, we start with a prior distribution over all computer programs, that weights a program exponentially less likely, the longer the program happens to be. Then we rule out the computer programs that do not exactly match all the observations. The posterior distribution assigns nonzero probability to the remaining computer programs (the ones that do exactly match all the observations), with posterior probability exponentially decreasing with program length. This means the shortest program that exactly matches all the data will be assigned the highest probability.
Back to your question. If your theory is accurate every single time, is that enough to prove it?
- No. It must also be short and simple, without shorter competing theories. If there is a shorter theory that is also accurate every single time, the shorter theory will be more likely.
- It also depends on how many observations you test it against. You can never really know when you've done enough testing, although you may decide to stop when the posterior probability of the theory is high enough, such as greater than 95%.
- In practice, it also depends on whether you are testing it against new observations or only fitting it to old data. That a model fits old data is weaker evidence than that the model predicts new data. This is because we imperfect humans use the fact that a model "came to our attention" as a proxy for the model having a high prior probability. This proxy is much closer to the truth if the model came to our attention before having seen the data the model is supposed to predict.
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"It must also be short and simple". Do you consider [QED](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_electrodynamics) "short and simple"? – Mauro ALLEGRANZA Jun 15 '23 at 08:20
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8@MauroALLEGRANZA Name me a shorter, simpler theory than QED that makes exactly the same predictions as QED. You can't. (Or if you could, there's a Nobel prize in your future!) So, yeah, QED is short and simple compared to known competing theories. – causative Jun 15 '23 at 10:59
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Yes. just to note that if a theory is more complex but makes precisely the same predictions, that does not make it *wrong* as such, but it does make it *less explanatory* because it has a higher Kolmogorov complexity than the other. It is a better theory because it explains more facts with a smaller theory (or the same facts with a smaller theory, or more facts with the same amount of theory). – Ben Jun 15 '23 at 16:30
It depends on what you what the theory to do.
Generally scientific theories aren't accepted just because of their predictive power, but for their explanatory power too. This is actually a very complicated question with a lot of disagreements among philosophers of science.
Consider, for example, you went to pre-Newtonian England and said something like "there are these dragons at the center of all planets and stars that pull everything closer to them at rate proportional to this equation : GM/r^2" You would be able to correctly predict the orbits of planets and so forth, but you would also draw some substantial criticism and probably would be ultimately rejected.
So predictive power is not just the sole justification for a theory, it needs to fit in with existing scientific understanding at some level, at least in theory.
Obviously there is a caveat to the need to fit in with existing understanding, (demonstrated by the advent of relativity and QM). It is important to note that the issue isn't entirely to do with QM and relativity being unintuitive or something like that; for example, Newtonian mechanics is a good theory to use when you are calculating the motion of 2 balls or something simple like that, but suppose now you are trying to calculate the motion of an air molecule with the same approach, it would be borderline impossible. Fluid mechanics is a much better theory to use when calculating something like this, does that mean Newton was wrong? Obviously not, because Newtonian mechanics works fine at the appropriate scale.
Here are some papers which explain the issue and give some solutions that you might be interested in :
https://repository.brynmawr.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1016&context=philosophy_pubs
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2Continuing with the history of astronomy, Kepler's ad-hoc phenomenological laws were good predictors, and continued to hold up with the discovery of the outer planets (though by then Newton had explained why the laws work.) They are not completely precise, however, and Newton's theory could account for most of the error as gravitational interactions between the planets - but not Mercury's precession... – A Raybould Jun 15 '23 at 02:32
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1Still in astronomy: the Ptolemaic system with it's epicycles was pretty accurate, but Kepler "won" back then because of Occam's Razor. – RonJohn Jun 15 '23 at 08:39
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@RonJohn - I do not think so... there is no reason to consider ellipses "simpler" than circles. No scientist ever used something called Occam's Razor... – Mauro ALLEGRANZA Jun 15 '23 at 08:54
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Given "there are these dragon at the center of all planets and stars that pulls everything closer to them", you can pretty much just remove the first part: "all planets and stars pulls everything closer to [their center]". The whole dragon thing would be entirely unnecessary, completely unsupported by evidence, and you can just remove it without affecting demonstrable predictive power. To posit a dragon, you'd need to justify why it can't be a fairy, or why there needs to be anything there at all, apart from some inorganic material. – NotThatGuy Jun 15 '23 at 09:20
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2@MauroALLEGRANZA Pretty much every scientist ever uses Occam's Razor all the time (whether they call it by that name or not). There's [an entire section on Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor#Uses) on the topic, which even includes a quote by Einstein expressing the same sentiment. You're going to have a hard time building a coherent and sensible model of reality when you add a bunch of unnecessary claims to your explanations. – NotThatGuy Jun 15 '23 at 09:24
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2@MauroALLEGRANZA the Ptolemaic system wasn't just circles. It was circles circling circles circling other circles that were circling circles. Epicycles were *very, very complicated*. Three simple laws using area and ellipses made things stupendously simpler than epicycles. – RonJohn Jun 15 '23 at 11:49
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Maybe some more details are needed in order to understand the **real** process of discovery: Curtis Wilson, [From Kepler's laws, so-called, to universal gravitation Empirical factors, AHES (1970)](https://www.jstor.org/stable/41133298) – Mauro ALLEGRANZA Jun 15 '23 at 12:10
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1@NotThatGuy The point of mentioning dragons is that we prefer theories that explain *why* something happens. Darwin's theory of evolution and Mendel's discovery of dominant and recessive traits are nice, but we didn't feel fully satisfied until the mechanism of DNA was discovered to explain it. – Barmar Jun 15 '23 at 13:46
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@Barmar Sure, we'd prefer to understand things better than we do, but when we don't, we shouldn't pretend that we do. When you don't understand why large masses attract things, you should probably just leave it at large masses attracting things without attributing that to dragons. You shouldn't say it's God, either. You shouldn't say that's invisible fairies. And so on. If you can swap out your claim with one of infinitely many other things with similar justification and explanatory power, it's probably not a good claim. – NotThatGuy Jun 15 '23 at 16:02
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@NotThatGuy Of course. Newton didn't try to establish an underlying cause to his laws of motion and gravitation -- they just *are*. And many philosophers of science believe that we can never really know *why* -- all we can do is get more and more refined models that make better predictions. – Barmar Jun 15 '23 at 16:11
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1Epicycles are just a Fourier series, so there is no reason whatsoever you can't predict the orbits to arbitrary precision using them. Indeed the precession of Mercury could in principle be predicted to an arbitrary precision given enough observations..... The issue is they don't *explain* anything, which we understand colloquially to mean "why these epicycles and not others". That colloquial question arises naturally when the explanation is "long" in some sense, hence I prefer @causative answer above (though I upvoted this one also). Summary: Newton's theory was better because it was shorter. – Ben Jun 15 '23 at 16:22
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@RonJohn Not to mention that Kepler's laws extend nicely to parabolas and hyperbolas – Hagen von Eitzen Jun 15 '23 at 21:45
There is a very simple argument that should convince you that the answer should be no. Suppose you have two or more mutually incompatible theories that make the same accurate predictions- they cannot all be true, so the predictions alone must therefore be insufficient to determine the correctness of any individual theory.
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Hi. Thank you for this answer. Would you please consider expanding on the meanings of "incompatible" and "true"? In particular, how does your argument apply to the two theories "light is a wave" and "light is a particle" - are these two theories incompatible? Is any of them not true? I've actually never had a notion of what "true" could mean for a theory, other than "it predicts stuff correctly" – Stef Jun 15 '23 at 15:53
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@Stef by incompatible I mean that they make conflicting claims about the causes of the results. By true, I mean that their claims about the nature of the causes have been verified in some way. For example, there are conflicting interpretations of quantum mechanics which we can't currently decide between experimentally, but they can't all be right. I will comment separately, when I get more time, about the nature of light, as that question does not have such a simple answer. – Marco Ocram Jun 15 '23 at 16:17
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@Stef Ptolemy's geocentric epicycles and Kelplerian heliocentrism both made accurate (for the era) predictions of planet's orbits. They were, though, mutually exclusive. – RonJohn Jun 16 '23 at 05:26
I think this question comes from a slight misconception about what constitutes a "theory", and what it means to "prove" it.
A theory's usefulness is in its ability to predict things about the world. A new theory is generally tested by seeing what it predicts about some scenario and finding a place where its predictions differ from some other theory, and then finding a way to observe what happens in reality to compare how well it matches up to the predictions. If observation differs from prediction, the theory is clearly wrong somehow.
If a new theory matches all observed behaviours exactly as well as an existing theory, its only merit is if it can shed new light on the possible causes or mechanisms that give rise to those observed behaviours.
If you have two possible mechanisms that could cause an observed behaviour, by definition you can't declare either to be correct, because the existence of an alternative explanation casts doubt. Whether that is a reasonable doubt depends on how reasonable each theory is, at which point we turn to things like Occam's Razor to decide whether theory A is more probable than theory B - but we can't say that either is "proven".
If your new theory makes accurate prediction about observations that we previously had no theory to explain, then that certainly lends credence to it, but we have to look at what it says about the causes. If your proposed explanation is provably the only thing in existence that could possibly be causing the observed behaviour, then yes, we can probably call that proof, but that's unlikely.
Far more likely is that your theory has two separate parts: a set of rules and logic that predicts the behaviours, and a set of unverifiable speculation about the causes and mechanisms. In this case, we can generally come up with some other set of unverifiable speculations to replace yours with, at which point we're back to the previous paragraph. If the speculative parts can be trimmed out of the theory with no loss of predictive power, then it's less a theory and more a description of observed behaviours. Look at Kepler's laws of planetary motion, which describe with reasonable accuracy the observed behaviour of celestial bodies, but say absolutely nothing about why celestial bodies behave that way.
At this point, "proof" means something slightly different, if it means anything at all - it's perhaps more accurate to say that you can "demonstrate your theory's accuracy" rather than that you can "prove" it.
That's not to say that there's no merit to that speculation. It might be that you were examining a particular field of science and realised that you could use it to construct an explanation for some phenomenon, and even though you couldn't verify the inner workings, you could still see some related effects to provide some evidence for it.
A lot of scientific discoveries started out with someone speculating that some process might be the cause of a phenomenon, and the scientific community spending years (or decades, or longer) coming up with some way to test the previously untestable and finally verify those internal mechanisms. We have theories about what might be happening inside a planet's core, or in the centre of stars, or in the instant of a supernova, but observing those things directly is very difficult so we can't verify with complete certainty that our theories are correct. At this point Occam's Razor comes back into play, or else we get into Bayesian epistemology and a really thorny discussion on what it means to "prove" something, or even to "know" something.
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