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I've currently been a witness to the following scenario in a MTT:

Bubble play - 26 players still in play, 24 places paid.

  • Player A gets eliminated on table 1.
  • Player B gets eliminated on table 2
  • Player C notices that there are only 24 players left in the tournament and doesn't hesitate to go all-in... and gets eliminated.
  • Player B finishes in a paid position.

Is it the pre-play amount of chips that determines the final position? This is a simplified example, but in huge tournaments with thousands of players playing at the bubble, it must be quite common.

Jerry
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2 Answers2

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Whomever had the most chips at the beginning of the hand places best in the tournament.

The number of players or tables does not matter, it just the same as three people going all in on a single table and two bust out. Whomever had the most chips at the beginning of the hand places highest.

On the bubble the same thing, if there are 101 players left and it is hand by hand, two people go busted, the one with the least number of chips has finished out of the money at 101th place, the other guy with the most starting chips finishes at 100th in the money.

If it is discovered that they both started with exactly the same number of chips, rare but it happens, they split the prize money for the places they placed in. In my example they would just split whatever in 100th place. If they were a little better, like say 88 and 89th place the prizes for the two spots would be added together then split between them.

Jon
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  • In an online tournament in a hand-for-hand state, it seems totally reasonable to use each player's pre-hand chip count to determine position. But is that really feasible in a larger live tournament where there are dozens of tables running simultaneously? 568 places paid in the 2014 WSOP main event, so that's at least 64 tables going through the first money bubble. How is that handled logistically? Do the dealers just have to keep explicit track of stacks better in hand-for-hand? Or do they just do the averaging more aggressively? – Chris Farmer Oct 01 '14 at 21:24
  • Of course, it is actually quite simple. The tournament announces hand per hand, the floor people watch to make sure all the hands are complete before the next hand proceeds. There are never many players going broke, usually only one, maybe two, simple task to count them down. – Jon Oct 01 '14 at 21:35
  • When you deal no limit you don't pull the bets in if people are all in and there is to be no more action. (Its a waste of time). At any rate the bets will be out there to count if a player busts out. – Jon Oct 01 '14 at 21:39
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    But people don't always go all in right away. There's the possibility of several people in the pot and even several side pots. Of course it's possible to reconstruct the hand from the betting, but it's not necessarily a "quite simple" process. It's heavily dependent on the action. If it's a heads-up pot and the all-in player loses, then that's a trivial exercise, but it's not the general case. – Chris Farmer Oct 02 '14 at 01:16
  • Everyone is on the same hand you see. That is what hand per hand is, just because they make the play after another player they are both on the same hand. – Jon Oct 02 '14 at 04:22
  • It is a simple process, the equation for lack of a better word is redundant for each player all in not more complicated. When there are all ins the chips are counted, always, simple stuff. It is done before the next hand is started. – Jon Oct 02 '14 at 04:25
  • You stated but people don't always go all in right away. Your confused about something. The whole tournament is on the same hand when it is hand for hand. Lets call the hand, hand 99 in the tournament. Everyone is on hand 99. Rather the go all in the first ten seconds of hand 99 or after the hand has been playing ten minutes, they are all still on hand 99, and of the people going busted on hand 99, no matter how many people went busted on hand 99, the player that started hand 99 with the most chips places best in the tournament of those that went busted on hand 99..... – Jon Oct 02 '14 at 04:32
  • You said •Player C notices that there are only 24 players left in the tournament and doesn't hesitate to go all-in... and gets eliminated. C did not realize that they were still on hand 99. He was in error. His bad. – Jon Oct 02 '14 at 04:34
  • It is simple, you keep the stacks in tact, you do not pull them in and push them to the winning player until the count has been verified. I can tell you it is simple process, once you understand it, I have watched it done many time at the WSOP, I have done it both running a tournament and dealing tournaments. It is just a matter of procedure, and it is simple. If you ever get to do it a couple of times you will see how simple it is. Even online it is simple program, just an ordered list. – Jon Oct 02 '14 at 04:41
  • Nah, I understand just fine what hand-for-hand means, but you're right that just having an accurate chip count for each player before the hand begins would solve the problem. – Chris Farmer Oct 02 '14 at 14:05
  • How do you keep the stack in tact? You don't pull in any bet or blind? – paparazzo Jan 31 '18 at 09:21
  • @Paparazzi When it is hand by hand the procedure is the dealer calls out "Player all in" it the amount is noted. During an all in (even in a cash game) if they get a call, you don't pull money in you get the hand done and count stacks after there is a winner determined, It is straight forward and very simple in practice. – Jon Feb 04 '18 at 21:12
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As Jon said, in online tournaments starting chip stack is usually used to determine ranking. This usually isn't the rule in live tournaments (for the reasons Chris Farmer raised).

In a live tournament generally all the players eliminated in the same hand would split the prizes. So in the scenario you described in a live tournament generally players A, B, and C would split the money for 24th place.

Julian
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  • In live play the players prize is precisely determined by chip count, just as in online play. People who are not experienced with this are making a bad assumption that this is to complicated to do. It is not, it is a drop dead simple process. It is a process as easy as determining side pots. Just because one does not understand how something is possible, does not mean it is impossible or even complicated. – Jon Oct 19 '14 at 21:03
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    Well, I'm not confident for smaller tournaments, but the WSOP specifically has players from differnet tables eliminated in the same hand tie (if they're at the same table chip values count). Check the rules at: https://www.wsop.com/2013/2013_WSOP_Rules.pdf. Rule 117 lays it out. – Julian Oct 20 '14 at 21:49