If there is a person who died at the age of 90 and a baby who died at one year old, what is the difference between them afterwards? They are both in a state of nothingness, they cannot remember or enjoy anything, so by this view does the way they lived matter?
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It you define death as the end of being, then obviously after the death the person who died has no opinion or feeling anymore. – tkruse Jan 21 '23 at 10:25
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See https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/34225/if-all-life-will-be-annihilated-then-why-does-anything-matter – tkruse Jan 21 '23 at 10:35
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2You seem to have skipped over the part where the people were alive. – Sandejo Jan 21 '23 at 17:51
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Q1: The only differences between them are physical (the dead baby is most likely smaller than the dead 90-year-old, they may have different-sized burials etc.) because they are now inanimate objects. Q2: there is no answer to whether life matters or not, because 'mattering' is subjective, and since their emotions and sensations were reliant upon their physical brain, you are correct they no longer can experience anything after death, but it would be a non-sequitur to point nihlism from the lack of afterlife. We will never know, hence you can either 'believe' or 'not believe' in nihilism. – Jan 21 '23 at 20:12
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Thanks for your all replies I’m sorry if my question is dark or nihilistic but I’m discovering and want answers – Rttr Jan 21 '23 at 22:56
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1that's not the concern @user64280 which is that even if all dead people are the same (and you didn't prove that) the fact is they weren't, and so the life of living people may still matter – Jan 21 '23 at 23:54
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Thank you for sharing your ideas – Rttr Jan 22 '23 at 01:44
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'Happiness is not the meaning of life', Alan Watts: https://youtu.be/RsdoJ9x8IBs – CriglCragl Jan 22 '23 at 03:00
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1If you watch the movie "Arrival", it basically deals with exactly what you are asking about. At the end I sit there calmly agreeing, and someone else I know is raging mad (we accidentally watched it twice). So, let me know what your reaction is. – Scott Rowe Jan 22 '23 at 04:55
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Thank you Scott I will try to watch it but my head filled with many negative thoughts I can’t really watch something – Rttr Jan 22 '23 at 05:27
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2Sounds like you're in a difficult place. Living a meaningful life can't be just about thinking. Please take what you face seriously, & think & work hard on finding meaning. Research says helping others helps us feel useful & needed, & is beneficial for mental health. This answer introduces the core ideas of Buddhism, which I find helpful grounding in the face of nihilism: 'Which discipline of philosophy is most interested in the nature of change?' https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/77279/which-discipline-of-philosophy-is-most-interested-and-relevant-to-studying-the-n/77462#77462 – CriglCragl Jan 22 '23 at 08:47
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the question mentions happiness of a sort, not "meaning" @CriglCragl if they had I would have answered differently – Jan 22 '23 at 16:16
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i suppose "mattered" might refer to "meaning" to life yeah @CriglCragl it's a slightly ambiguous term – Jan 22 '23 at 16:43
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1Thank you @CriglCragl will do – Rttr Jan 23 '23 at 01:12
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In so far as we accept the idea that there is no after life, it doesn't matter. But the fact they were alive did matter a great deal to them at the time they were alive. See Albert Camus and his thoughts on absurdism, or the doctrine of embracing the absurdity of life, for an in depth exploration of the topic. Start with some summary or even the wikipedia page as his books are a difficult read. If i may, even if you are in a dark place now hold on, you are about to find the key to durable, solid happiness in a tough world. – armand May 19 '23 at 00:26
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We could reframe the question in scientific terms and may be then we can answer the question. – Agent Smith May 19 '23 at 04:40
3 Answers
This question is an excellent way to start philosophy. Which is to say, it will need a lot of philosophy to answer it.
Really you are asking, what meaning does a life have, after it's ended? And you can extend that, we know the cosmos will unravel its entropy, in the long Heat Death or Big Rip, leaving nothing behind as far as we know. So what will have been the point, in the long run?
"Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death.
Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."
-Shakespeare, MacBeth, Scene 5
It is an old problem.
And, I would describe it as a key engine of the need, rather than choice, for philosophy. We learn the history of thinkers, the names of schools and argumentative positions. But the real purpose is: answering this.
I argue here that the prominance of this problem is an artifact of our focus on individualism, and a shift towards recognising what we inherit and will pass on can be therapy: Is Death a Feature or a Bug? Stewardship, rather than ownership, of our world, as the proper view.
I argue here that the social apportioning of symbolic immortality is critical to how we structure societies and shape behaviour: What are some philosophical works that explore constructing meaning in life from an agnostic or atheist view?
The brute wrestling with the meaningless and irrelevance of our lives in the wider scheme of the world are central topics for Existentialism and Absurdism. Essentially, we are forced to recognise that meaning involves subjectivity, we cannot find it out there, we must make it out of the strands of our own lives, and accept what we make may only matter to us, in our brief strut and fret on a stage where we are really the only audience.
Stoicism takes the view of focusing on what we can change and accepting what we cannot. Much like Buddhism. Death is inevitable, it is healthy to recognise that, to face it, to meditate on it. Yet, what we have come to define as meaning, has always coexisted with that.
So, what is meaning? What does it mean? I give my answer here: According to the major theories of concepts, where do meanings come from?
No one can answer this question for you. That is the nature of subjectivity. Philosophy can point you towards tools for a meaningful life. But, you must be the one to use them. Good luck.
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It might take a lot of philosophy, but a nondual answer is one word: *particularity*. – Scott Rowe Jan 22 '23 at 04:59
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1@ScottRowe: We cannot reason our way out of what we did not reason our way into. Meaning is a felt need, and our answer must be - *lived.* – CriglCragl Jan 22 '23 at 05:03
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If you had examined your own question you could have certainly found the answer.
Why do you think of the life after death to find the answer to this question? Do you think the life of all 90-year-old men and all 1-year-old children are alike? Aren't there any ages in between these two ages?
That will definitely make you think this: “What would be the life on the earth like if all lives were alike?” The problem with your question is that before posting this question you didn’t think about more aspects of life.
If you see any differences in the lives of the two mentioned here, there must be some reason behind it. If there is a difference, that difference would never be one that emerged abruptly.
Without thinking too much about one's posthumous life, one must make one's present life meaningful. This is never impossible. When one gets the answer to this doubt while alive, he will never ask about this 'posthumous doubt'.
The purpose of life is to endure in the Self and to stay in the Sahaja state by the jnana marga(knowledge road). The meaning of the present birth is to turn within and realize the self. All other purposes in life are secondary. The highest goal of man is to enquire “Who am I” and realize the self.
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Hi can you please tell what I’m missing and how can I go over this question in my mind – Rttr Jan 21 '23 at 23:09
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1i think there are two ways @user64280 you can either decide that the happiness of living people exists after they die, or that life matters despite no-one being happy when they're dead. i can't see how you're inferring your nihilism. it may be true that dead people aren't happy, but denying that anyone is ever happy in any sense whatsoever seems trivially mistaken and ruled out by the way the world is populated by happy and unhappy people. – Jan 22 '23 at 00:16
I've felt this way much of my life, so forgive the lack of research.
It's true that without happiness my life is bad, if not entirely worthless. Add that my past happiness - and when I'm dead it's only in the past - is not relevant to whether I am happy now (it may seem like little consolation that I was happy if we're sad or indeed dead) and you have the beginning of some puzzle.
One simple way to solve it is to say that happiness that is forever (are we happiness addicts?) isn't what we mean by happiness and a well lived life (or at least that not having it is OK).
Another alternative is to say that not being at all happy now (which includes dead people) does not mean we miss out on all happiness (and dying can only rob us of some happiness). The latter is a legitimate concern, but it is illegitimately extended if only my happiness now counts as happiness.
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2I've often drawn on past happiness to help me get through difficult times. We should also remember what it says in Ecclesiastes: "*As for the dead, they know nothing at all.*" So, they can't be 'less' happy than they were, because they can't be... anything. – Scott Rowe Jan 21 '23 at 19:23
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True @ScottRowe but I think it's meaningless to say that dead people are happy – Jan 21 '23 at 19:25
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I would have thought so anyway, that nothing exists to be happy just as much as nothing to suffer the harm of death. But https://www.jstor.org/stable/3750216 – Jan 21 '23 at 19:31
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it's scary to think that dead people can still be happy and unhappy, especially as that "forever" is contingent on other people (unlike religious hells etc.). so i prefer to think of those ideas in other ways @ScottRowe – Jan 21 '23 at 20:02
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as misfortunes and evils etc. rather than "unhappiness"... happiness is an activity imho @ScottRowe and i'm not very clear on much else about it. perhaps as a virtuous striving you enjoy or succeed at? dunno – Jan 21 '23 at 20:55
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oh right ok @user64280 sorry. Maybe you're really scared of dying then, and wrongly thing the harm of death is so bad that nothing else matters. IDK – Jan 21 '23 at 23:33
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i don't know @user64280 the fact that the dead can't enjoy anything is bad and you might be scared of it. my answer was trying to show that it may not mean that the living aren't happy for some short time and that life *does* matter. sorry if that doesn't help – Jan 21 '23 at 23:41
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1it wasn't meant as as dismissal of your question @user64280 I think it's better to not want to die, and that wanting to die can mask a fear/aversion/denial of the harm of death. that's all. again, i'm not calling you inauthentic, just suggesting you may have confused yourself – Jan 21 '23 at 23:47
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"And what of the dead? They lie without shoes in their stone boats. They are more like stone than the sea would be if it stopped. They refuse to be blessed, throat, eye and knucklebone." -from The Truth The Dead Know, Anne Sexton – CriglCragl Jan 22 '23 at 04:59