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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egocentric_presentism Are modern Chinese, Japanese and Korean schools of Buddhism viewed as egocentric presentism? Are there any teachings in modern Chinese and Japanese schools of Buddhism that support egocentric presentism? Are there any teachings in modern Chinese and Japanese schools of Buddhism that would say that all people can have consciousness, but they do not have thoughts, emotions, memories and sensations? Thank you.

Johnny
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  • Buddhism denies the existence of a "self" which is cleanly separated from the rest of reality (including other people), so I don't see how a metaphysical view saying that only one self's experiences are real could be compatible with that. – Hypnosifl Apr 22 '21 at 21:06
  • thanks. That is, modern Chinese, Japanese and Korean Buddhists believe that all people in our world have their own mindstreams (consciousness, feelings, emotions, thoughts, memories, sensation and perception). – Johnny Apr 22 '21 at 21:38
  • But would they see the boundaries between such streams as being totally clear and distinct, or as having sort of fuzzy boundaries, like ripples in water? few people would claim there are precise boundaries between ripples such that for every water molecule between two adjacent ripples there must be an absolute truth about which ripple it is part of. Egocentric presentism, if taken as a metaphysical view and not just an attitude people tend to have, would seem to require some absolute truth about what is and isn't part of a given stream of mind. – Hypnosifl Apr 22 '21 at 21:44
  • Also, a more general question--can you elaborate on what made you think there could be a connection between Buddhism and egocentric presentism? What similarities, even if just analogical ones, do you see between egocentric presentism and Buddhist teachings? – Hypnosifl Apr 22 '21 at 21:46
  • The Yogacara doctrine seems to me to be somewhat similar. Since Yogachara had a strong influence on the modern schools of Buddhism in China and Japan. That is why my question arose in what the modern Chinese, Japanese and Korean schools of Buddhism believe. – Johnny Apr 22 '21 at 21:52
  • Sorry sir, could you answer my question? That is, modern Chinese, Japanese and Korean Buddhists believe that all people in our world have their own mindstreams (consciousness, feelings, emotions, thoughts, memories, sensory sensations and perception) Or does each of them believe that only he has perceptions, sensory sensations, feelings, emotions and thoughts, while other people in our world have only consciousnesses, and their experience (thoughts, emotions, feelings, perceptions and sensory sensations) is absent? – Johnny Apr 22 '21 at 22:46
  • I don't see any reason to think they believe other streams besides one's own our "absent" in some objective metaphysical way--you mentioned Yogacara, but is there some specific doctrine or quote from Yogacara that reminds you of egocentrism presentism? – Hypnosifl Apr 22 '21 at 22:55
  • I read the Chinese doctrine of Yogacara, I do not remember the quotes, but in general it seemed to me that it has something to do with this solipsism. Therefore, I wanted to clarify whether modern Chinese Buddhists belong to this type of solipsists. – Johnny Apr 22 '21 at 23:07
  • I once came across this modern Chinese Buddhism's Mahayana school (cttbusa.org/sutratexts.asp.html). From all those suttra texts and commentaries, I didn't see most of them hold egocentric presentism. Anatta is a common position hold within Buddhism universally, certainly not egocentric presentism... Once you've read most of the linked texts and commentaries, hopefully your question may got answered by yourself... – Double Knot Apr 23 '21 at 00:27
  • I see no relation between egocentric presentism and any Buddhism, including Yogachara - which you have misidentified as a Chinese doctrine. It was originally developed in India. It seems also that you confuse the ego 'consciousness' with 'Absolute Consciouness' Suggest reading D.T Suzuki's 'Asvaghosha's Discourse on the Awakening of Faith in the Mahayana' and the chapters on Buddhism here - https://archive.org/details/IndianPhilosophyACriticalSurvey – Swami Vishwananda Apr 23 '21 at 06:16

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There are Buddhist meditation practices, aimed at realising something like Egocentric Presentism, I'd say, about ordinary samsaric experience:

"...reflect on your beginningless lives in this cycle of existence and that through many of your lives you have had to depend on your mothers. There is not a single living being that you can definitely point to as not having been your mother in the past." Dalai Lama

The longest unit of time in Buddhist thought is reckoned to be around 335 billion years, a significant fraction of our current estimate of the length of time over which stars will burn. Contemplating such vast timescales, along with the wheel of becoming, has the effect of recognising you have been in all situations and will be again. I've drawn comparison with Rawl's theory of justice, which is I'd guess a clearer example of egocentric presentism?

The metaphor for sunyata or interbeing Indra's Net is perhaps relevant.

There is an academic interpretation of the function of awakening, as intersubjective virtuosity. Which might relate.

Bit of a stretch, and egocentric intrinsically sounds like a bad fit except in describing samsara.

CriglCragl
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  • Thanks for the answer. But I'm wondering if modern Chinese, Japanese and Korean Buddhists believe that all people in our world have their own emotions, sensations, sensory sensations, perceptions, thoughts and memories. Or they believe that only they have experience, and all other people in our world have consciousness but do not have this experience(emotions, feelings, thoughts, perceptions) – Johnny Apr 22 '21 at 23:14
  • Because Egocentric Presentism is a form of solipsism, if Buddhism is Egocentric Presentism then modern Buddhists are solipsists? – Johnny Apr 22 '21 at 23:22
  • 'anatta' is one of the 'three marks of existence', at the core of Buddhist thinking, so no. We discussed 'Different between Buddhism and Solipsism' https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/78685/different-between-buddhism-and-solipsism/78696#78696 As I said there, solipsism as usually presented, is not debatable. This egocentrism sounds like monism. I guess your agenda us just putting things in boxes. Solipsism is better understood as a tool: https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/48862/why-does-all-of-existence-take-place-through-my-subjective-point-of-view/48868#48868 – CriglCragl Apr 23 '21 at 02:37
  • @Johnny: "For there is suffering, but none who suffers; Doing exists although there is no doer; Extinction is but no extinguished person; Although there is a path, there is no goer" -Visuddhimagga XVI-90 – CriglCragl Apr 23 '21 at 02:46