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Preface: First encountering this quote on p 150, Philosophy: A Complete Introduction (2012) by Prof. Sharon Kaye MA PhD (in Philosophy, U. Toronto), I already tried the paraphrase on p 40 of 78 of the 2008 paraphrase.
Source: III.4; Scroll down 20% of the page, Chapter III: Of Individuality, On Liberty (1869, 4 ed) by John Stuart Mill

Supposing it were possible to get houses built, corn grown, battles fought, causes tried, and even churches erected and prayers said, by machinery—by automatons in human form—it would be a considerable loss to exchange for these automatons even the men and women who at present inhabit the more civilized parts of the world, and who assuredly are but starved specimens of what nature can and will produce.

Here the adverb 'even' functions to emphasise the extremity of the loss that would result from exchanging humans for automatons. But then for the most effective emphasis, should not Mill have referenced the people who inhabit the LESS civilised parts of the world, whose tasks CAN be automated (because the MORE civilised parts of the world have less that can be automated)?

Geoffrey Thomas
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  • Do you understand the English of the quote (which admittedly is not the clearest prose)? It's a lengthy way of saying he doesn't think automata could do better than any humans even the ones who are furthest from being in good shape (i.e. ones in the developed world) – virmaior Mar 14 '16 at 00:39
  • @virmaior Thanks. Yes; I understand the English syntax and your paraphrase which raises exactly my question. If Mill were referring to `the ones who are furthest from being in good shape`, then he should have referenced the LESS (and NOT more) civilised parts of the world? Please feel free to post an answer. –  Mar 17 '16 at 16:34
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    I'm not sufficiently familiar with this point of Mill's philosophy to do anything more than just parse the quote, so a +1 instead of an answer. – virmaior Mar 17 '16 at 23:18
  • @virmaior +1. Thank you for the support, nonetheless! –  Mar 18 '16 at 04:57
  • I've inserted a comma between 'world, whose'. As it stood the sentence strictly referred to a sub-set of people who inhabit the less civilized parts of the world, i.e. (only) those people among the inhabitants of the less civilized parts of the world whose tasks can be automated &c. I take it you meant no such restriction. But let me congratulate you on a good question. I have never known this pasage to be scrutinised in the literature. – Geoffrey Thomas Jul 04 '18 at 15:10
  • @GeoffreyThomas Thanks! I'm humbled by the congratulation...just trying my best! –  Jul 07 '18 at 17:56

3 Answers3

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Mill is speaking of liberty:

The human faculties of perception, judgment, discriminative feeling, mental activity, and even moral preference, are exercised only in making a choice.

This implies also "creativity":

He who lets the world, or his own portion of it, choose his plan of life for him, has no need of any other faculty than the ape-like one of imitation. He who chooses his plan for himself, employs all his faculties.

But human freedom is not for Mill aimed only at knowledge and understanding, but also to "doing"; see his second basic categories of liberty (I 12):

Liberties of tastes, pursuits, and life-plans

This means the liberty of pursuing personal growth trough "active life":

Supposing it were possible to get houses built, corn grown, battles fought, causes tried, and even churches erected and prayers said, by machinery—by automatons in human form—it would be a considerable loss to exchange for these automatons even the men and women who at present inhabit the more civilized parts of the world, and who assuredly are but starved specimens of what nature can and will produce. Human nature is not a machine to be built after a model, and set to do exactly the work prescribed for it, but a tree, which requires to grow and develope itself on all sides, according to the tendency of the inward forces which make it a living thing.

Mauro ALLEGRANZA
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Two ideas of liberty in Mill ?

I agree that Mill is speaking of liberty but would argue that in OL ch. 3 his idea of liberty undergoes a change. Ch. 1 - 2 are about negative freedom - exemption from interference in thought and action within the limits of not harming others. Negative freedom protects us from external constraints. Individuality in ch. 3 is closer to what is normally called positive freedom. Mill is concerned with internal constraints that impede our development towards human excellence.

Automatons and individuality

The relevant passage of On Liberty (ch. 3) reads :

He who lets the world, or his own portion of it, choose his plan of life for him, has no need of any other faculty than the ape-like one of imitation. He who chooses his plan for himself, employs all his faculties. He must use observation to see, reasoning and judgment to foresee, activity to gather materials for decision, discrimination to decide, and when he has decided, firmness and self-control to hold to his deliberate decision. And these qualities he requires and exercises exactly in proportion as the part of his conduct which he determines according to his own judgment and feelings is a large one. It is possible that he might be guided in some good path, and kept out of harm's way, without any of these things. But what will be his comparative worth as a human being? It really is of importance, not only what men do, but also what manner of men they are that do it. Among the works of man, which human life is rightly employed in perfecting and beautifying, the first in importance surely is man himself. Supposing it were possible to get houses built, corn grown, battles fought, causes tried, and even churches erected and prayers said, by machinery—by automatons in human form — it would be a considerable loss to exchange for these automatons even the men and women who at present inhabit the more civilised parts of the world, and who assuredly are but starved specimens of what nature can and will produce. Human nature is not a machine to be built after a model, and set to do exactly the work prescribed for it, but a tree, which requires to grow and develop itself on all sides, according to the tendency of the inward forces which make it a living thing.

I think a more natural syntax would be : 'it would be a considerable loss to exchange even the men and women who at present inhabit the more civilised parts of the world for these automatons.'

Mill's thought is genuinely difficult to interpret here. Why not, as the questioner asks, 'the less civilized parts of the world' ? I think the key sentence is : 'Among the works of man, which human life is rightly employed in perfecting and beautifying, the first in importance surely is man himself.'

Humankind in the less civilized parts of the world is capable of developing 'on all sides'. It is important for Individuality that it should thus develop, and the introduction of automatons to do its work would harmfully hinder this development. It needs to learn and develop through activity and not have this activity done for it by automatons.

Now, it might appear that humankind in the more civilized parts of the world has already undergone a full development and so, if their work in a broad variety of tasks, can be replaced by - exchanged for - automatons, this would be a smart deal. Mill disagrees. Automatons work (so Mill understands robotry) exactly to a fixed pattern of activity prescribed for them. They do not experiment; they do nothing new, they do nothing old in a new way. But human beings precisely do or should experiment; the scope for experimentation would diminish with every task abandoned to automatons. Even in the more civilized parts of the world, humankind has achieved only a pale prefiguration of the Individuality of which it is capable. It would be a poor exchange to have automatons do the very tasks in experimenting in and with which human Individuality develops and is improved.

I take this to be the main sense of Mill's passage.

Geoffrey Thomas
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Supposing it were possible to get houses built, corn grown, battles fought, causes tried, and even churches erected and prayers said, by machinery—by automatons in human form—it would be a considerable loss to exchange for these automatons even the men and women who at present inhabit the more civilized parts of the world, and who assuredly are but starved specimens of what nature can and will produce.

Here the adverb 'even' functions to emphasise the extremity of the loss that would result from exchanging humans for automatons. But then for the most effective emphasis, should not Mill have referenced the people who inhabit the LESS civilised parts of the world, whose tasks CAN be automated (because the MORE civilised parts of the world have less that can be automated)?

If you read it to mean that even if we were able to allow automatons to do all the most "civilized" duties of mankind (as opposed to the much more basic work of, say, gathering water and building huts and so forth in "less civilized" places)--which presupposes that they are able to do such complex, "civilized" tasks--it would still be a bad deal. One might think it is a good deal, since these robots would be doing all this intricate stuff (and thus the need for "even"), but it actually isn't.

The reason it is a bad deal (a "considerable loss"), is because when automatons replace persons, it does not allow each person to grow as a person, through his or her work and struggle. As Mill says above this (notes and emphasis mine):

It is possible that he might be guided in some good path, and kept out of harm's way [such as by these automatons]...But what will [then] be his comparative worth as a human being?

(Thanks to Geoffrey Thomas's answer for helping me developing mine, which is very similar to his, but I thought a couple of attempts at explanation might be helpful.)

Chelonian
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