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Im7 II-7(b5) bIIImaj7 IVm7 Vm7 bVImaj7 bVII7 These parallel natural minor chords used in pop music do not show up in the circle of 5ths. I only see vi ii and iii. Is there a chart or a way to reference these parallel minor chords to be used in my chord progressions?

Pabble Goobs
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  • How do you think they're *parallel*? – Tim Jun 22 '21 at 19:51
  • https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/29817/why-do-many-songs-in-major-keys-use-a-bvii-chord . The comment with 14 likes. – Pabble Goobs Jun 22 '21 at 19:52
  • Here's a comment with 14 likes: https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/29817/why-do-many-songs-in-major-keys-use-a-bvii-chord#comment42201_29818. I don't see how it's relevant. You can link to the actual comment you're referring to. – phoog Jun 22 '21 at 23:29
  • That's an answer, not a comment, so I didn't notice it. – phoog Jun 22 '21 at 23:45
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    In the 12 tone system, no note is outside of the circle of fiths. If you start on any of the 12 notes and move by fifths, you will hit all 12 notes. – Kaz Jun 23 '21 at 00:06

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A parallel minor scale or key is a minor scale that shares the same root as its parallel major scale or key, for example, C major and C minor are parallel.

As for not being in the circle of 5ths, they actually are, 3 positions apart from each other. Using C again as an example, C and C minor (aka Eb major) are 3 positions apart in the circle, as are any other parallel keys.

John Belzaguy
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  • I thought that am was the parallel to C since all the notes are the same? – Pabble Goobs Jun 22 '21 at 20:16
  • A minor and C major are relative minor and major, not parallel. The share all the same notes, not the case for parallel. – John Belzaguy Jun 22 '21 at 20:18
  • In the above example why did the commenter flatten the III VI and VII? If I am playing in G and wanted to substitute the e why would I use a flattened major? – Pabble Goobs Jun 22 '21 at 20:20
  • Because they are flattened in the minor key. If you are in G major and you want to use a chord from a parallel minor key you would borrow it from the parallel key, for example, the bIII, Bb. In minor it is just called the III since b3 is diatonic to the minor. – John Belzaguy Jun 22 '21 at 20:34
  • This makes sense! I see it on this chart too. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6b/b6/2e/6bb62e65e76b5af26c5e5b539a3acf48.png . Was bVII a notation error since the VII is not flat? – Pabble Goobs Jun 22 '21 at 20:40
  • In minor the VII is flat. Say in the key of A minor the VII is G, a major triad built on the b7 or m7 of A. – John Belzaguy Jun 22 '21 at 20:42
  • When I look up g minor scale it doesn't show a flat VII. If the g scale had a flat VII wouldn't VII be D#? In 'a' minor wouldn't that make VII F#? – Pabble Goobs Jun 22 '21 at 20:50
  • As a side note, traditional western analysis does not typically place accidentals before Roman numerals but jazz/pop analysis does. For example III in classical is the same as bIII in jazz/pop. I prefer being specific/literal about the intervals from the tonic chord. – John Belzaguy Jun 22 '21 at 20:53
  • In G regardless of major or minor, a major 7th is F#, a minor 7th (also sometimes called a b7) is F (diatonic to minor). D# is an augmented 5th from G, enharmonically a m6th (Eb). I’m talking about notes here, not chords btw. – John Belzaguy Jun 22 '21 at 20:57
  • This makes sense. Why doesn't the 7th note in a g minor scale say flat? Are we saying flat only in relation to the G major scale? – Pabble Goobs Jun 22 '21 at 21:07
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    @PabbleGoobs - in a G minor scale (not the same thing as a key) the 7 ***is*** flat, by definition. The datum point - G major - has F#, so flattening it will produce F nautral. There will never be an F# in the key sig. of G minor - in standard writing. In some minor *scales*, the F *is* sharp, but that has no bearing on this situation. – Tim Jun 23 '21 at 09:30
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    @Tim good explanation. Pabble, remember what makes a scale major or minor is not sharps or flats which like Tim says are different in every key but intervals, the distances between the notes. They can be measured note to note, wwhwwwh for a major scale or whwwhww for a minor scale (w=whole step h=half step) An even better way of thinking is measuring from the root note, M2 M3 P4 P5 M6 M7 for a major scale and M2 m3 P4 P5 m6 m7 for a minor scale. The 3,6,7 intervals are major (or natural) in major keys and minor (or flattened) in minor keys. – John Belzaguy Jun 23 '21 at 16:49
  • Awesome this helps so much. Can I ask what the P stands for? Thank you. – Pabble Goobs Jun 23 '21 at 18:33
  • P is for perfect. 4ths and 5ths are not major or minor like the others. There are 3 basic types of 4th and 5th intervals, Perfect, diminished (1/2 step lower) and augmented (1/2 step higher. – John Belzaguy Jun 23 '21 at 20:38
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The circle of 5ths is a way to visualise chords that have a functional relationship to each other, ii - V - I sequences and the like. It is NOT a diagram of 'permitted' chords.

My personal theory is that the 'circle' gets undue attention because it's one of the few decorative, pictorial elements you can put in a harmony textbook. So they all do, on a full page.

Yes, ii - V - I and its extensions are useful in constructing a chord sequence. They are not the ONLY way to construct one. You can effectively move to a chord that merely has one or more notes in common with the current chord. Or to one that has no connection apart from being the same shape and adjacent to the current one. Or...

When the Circle of 5ths explains something, good. But it doesn't explain everything. Far from it.

Laurence
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The chart showing the 'circle of 4ths/5ths' shows what you're looking for. It's just that you're looking in the wrong place!

You mixed up relative with parallel. Relative minor is the term used for the same set of notes, but rooted on the 6th note of its relative major. So key C major's relative minor is - C D E F G A - A minor. Or 3 steps the other way, if you like. And the quoted one is usually A natural minor - with exactly the same set of notes as its relative major - C.

What you're looking for is further round that circle.Three steps away. It's where E♭ lives. Because C minor is the relative minor of E♭ major. So, all the notes (and chords) found there are the ones used when using the parallel key, C minor.

All there, just hiding where you didn't expect to find them!

Tim
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