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I feel as though I have a pretty good handle on wiring strategies - well, I did until I came across this today. What in the world am I looking at??

enter image description here

To provide some context, this dual gang switch supports a fan with light kit and it is a part of a circuit that also has outlets on it. As you may be able to see, there are 3 wires entering the box.

  • 1 hot and 1 neutral are tied into the first switch
  • the switches are tied together
  • 1 hot from second switch exits the box
  • 2 neutrals are tied together with a ground?!?!
  • the 3rd hot is effectively tape-spliced to the hot entering the first switch

Honestly, I have no clue what's going on here. Unless anyone has a suggestion, my thinking is to pull it all apart and at least figure out which wire is line, but even then, I'm not sure how the fan switching is wired up here since if you assume that there's a wire for line and a continuation for the outlets, that leaves only 1 x 14/2 going to the fan - which makes me believe that line may be coming from the fan and then continuing on to the outlets.

Any thoughts or suggestions for testing and correcting?

UPDATE: As was mentioned in the answers, here's what was going on.

  • somebody decided to "fix the glitch" with regard to wanting separate switches for the fan and light - and having only 1 x 14/2 cable running from the box to the fan - by using the white and black wires for the 2 hot leads and then using the ground for a common neutral (that's why it's wired that way)
  • there are 2 other 14/2 cables coming into the box - 1 was the line from the box (I verified this by taking everything apart, turning on the power, and seeing what was hot) - the other served outlet loads in the room.
  • that tape...it's just as bad as you might imagine. I've added a picture for dramatic effect.

enter image description here

For now, I've at least got everything connected with proper connectors. This weekend, I'm going to replace the fan with a 2 wire (no light kit) and will run a new 14/2 leg for some recessed lights. Oh, and the box - definitely replacing the box.

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    Any time you see 4 drywall screws driven haphazardly into blue Carlon you know you're in for some creative wiring. :) What does each switch do individually? Have you looked at the fan side yet to see what is connected up there? What you have there is definitely wrong - but that should help us figure out how to get to "right". – Chris O Jan 17 '23 at 21:59
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    What you see as a white neutral is a hot/switched hot. The ground connected to the neutrals is a no-no, if you undo that ground and stuff stops working, you have bigger problems, like a broken/disconnected neutral somewhere. The grounds should be pigtailled to the green screws on the switches(minor). – crip659 Jan 17 '23 at 22:05
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    Somewhere, an NFPA 70 NEC code book spontaneously burst into flames. – MonkeyZeus Jan 18 '23 at 16:29

2 Answers2

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They did a naughty thing, from the look of it.

They were too cheap to buy /3 cable, so they converted white to neutral and they are bootlegging ground to be the neutral.

They didn't even bother to separate the ground wire from the other grounds. So if the ground gets loose at your main panel, this will energize all the grounds on that circuit! That means every equipment box and switch plate cover screw will shock you. Nice.

Follow the black and white wire from the switches back to the cable they come from. There's a ground in that cable too. Put a clamp meter around it, and I bet you see current on it - which you should not.

Unfortunately there is no elegant way to put this right and also keep separate light and fan control, at least not via plain switches. They make modules that sit up at the fan and allow multiple control via a switch-box controller or a wireless remote (the latter are kind of tacky, though).

Harper - Reinstate Monica
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  • This is that I have seen in a fictional story "the rise of machines": every electric machine you touch is suddenly ready to kill you. Amazing to realize this actually has a possible engineering background! – h22 Jan 18 '23 at 10:13
  • I wonder what happens when they die and are, inevitably, sent to hell. They get high-fived and are told "good job guys" ? Very interesting theological problem. ;) – Karl Jan 18 '23 at 19:09
  • @h22 yeah, that's actually a thing in Britain because of the dumb way they (fail to) bond buildings to earth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRHyqouJPzE. This creates a nightmare when trying to figure out how to charge EVs, because manufacturers connect the steel of the EV frame to the earth pin on the charging connector. – Harper - Reinstate Monica Jan 19 '23 at 01:07
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First of all, repeat after me:

WHITE IS NOT NEUTRAL!

Neutral is white. But white is not neutral. White can be part of an old switch loop (in this case likely done incorrectly, but that is a separate problem), a traveler in a 3-way switch, the second hot in a 240V circuit or possibly some other things.

Grounds should not be mixed with any other wires. In this case, yes the ground is mixed with white neutrals (because (a) multiple whites together are almost always neutral and (b) if the white wires were hot/switched hot/traveler then they would trip a breaker when connected to ground). That is for one of two possible reasons:

  • Confusion about where/when neutral and ground are to be connected (answer: only in one place, normally in the main panel)
  • I got this ground wire, but no metal box, and no place to put it, so I might as well put it somewhere useful... Which is wrong. The preferred solution is to use a metal box and connect the wire to the box. Next best is to connect all the grounds together and from the batch of grounds go to the switches. (Most switches ground via their yokes in a metal box, but obviously not in a plastic box. The switch on the right has a very nice green ground screw.)

But the way to figure this out is one cable at a time.

  • Turn power off.
  • Tag the wires - e.g., A, B, C - to match the cables.
  • Note which wires currently go where - e.g., A-black - switch 1 top. That includes noting which wires are connected with wire nuts.
  • Disconnect the wires.
  • Turn power on.
  • Check which wires have power.
  • Check which things besides the switched lights don't have power.

and then start connecting things, one more cable at a time, and you should get a picture of which cables go from or to:

  • Breaker panel
  • Switched lights
  • Other stuff

and you will also find out whether the ground wire connected to the neutrals matters or not. Hopefully it does not matter (i.e., connect everything except the ground and everything works correctly). But if it does matter then you probably have something using ground instead of neutral. Most of the time, that is illegal, but some new smart switches are legitimately allowed to use ground.

Also, it looks like you might have some backstab connections in use on the right switch. If you do, move the wires to screw connections (like the left switch), and use a pigtail if you have to connect two wires to one screw.

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    I talking with a few more people, I think your comment about using the ground for something else is right. I looks as though someone at some point wanted to have 2 switches for the fan, but only had a 14/2 going to it, so they used the ground as the neutral for the cable going up to the fan. The other 2 cables, then would be for line and other loads. That's the theory anyway, but I'll follow your counsel here and pull everything apart to test/verify – Howard Dierking Jan 17 '23 at 22:40
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    Neutral is white. But white is not neutral. - worth repeating. – beswald Jan 18 '23 at 18:06