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Anyone ever had this done? What does this kind of thing typically cost if I have to pay for it? The utility cooperative here won't tell me anything without first paying hundreds of dollars for a "tech to review it". That was their immediate answer with zero research - they weren't even interested in what address / where I was talking about and would not give me a ball park within even "$10k dollars".

We just purchased this small farm property we live on in Montana. We are actively haying the property as was the previous owner. We are surrounded by a few small housing developments and other rural small farms. While it's easy to get a car around this pole, the farming operation requires that we bring a semi in at least 3 times a season + other large equipment on occasion. It has to go through major detours of multiple miles and through a small rural housing development, finally doing a complicated turn-around in a Cul-de-sac nearby all due to this pole being in the way on the main entrance. Ie. People have to deal with us driving our equipment through their neighborhoods. The previous owners have always done this, and while the community is understanding, it's not ideal and gets more complex as the area develops / fills up with more homes. There is also a very popular camping / river entrance that we have to drive through to do this and sometimes it's a nightmare. The sole reason for this is the pole. It's literally about 15 minutes extra + the nuisance to everyone.

Any pointers? Any typical state departments which regulate how the utilities right-of-ways are used / abused? Again, this is my residence as well and I am planning a lot of DIY improvements including improving / paving the long driveway. Would rather get this pole moved before I do that.

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ThreePhaseEel
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maplemale
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    Is that a driveway or a public road we're looking at? If driveway, it may be easier to just move it/make it wider, then trying to deal with getting the pole moved. Also it looks to me like it's a power pole with phone company renting space on it. Coincidentally, I recently talked to an engineer who is running a reconstruct project on the road I'm on, and he mentioned it costs about $10k per pole to move those.This involved moving an entire power line, so for just one pole, the cost will likely be higher. – PhilippNagel Jun 09 '20 at 17:52
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    I fully empathize with your situation, especially in the "wild west" of MT (we used to be neighbors - I grew up in ID). However, I'm in agreement with Philipp - while I'm not sure which way the truck needs to enter/exit, it would probably be much easier and cheaper in the long run to make the driveway adjustments on your property and leave the power company out of it, especially since they're being obstinate. You may, however, consider contacting the Public Utility Commission to see what they suggest. – FreeMan Jun 09 '20 at 18:00
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    @PhilippNagel Thanks! That's helpful even just knowing any price! Yes - it's my driveway. Unfortunately my driveway is part of a 1/4 mile long and 30 ft wide stretch of my property (leading to the large field). All of this is surrounded by other properties. That fence you see and the other driveway in the background is NOT my property. Thus, the driveway can't be moved at all and that pole is literally sitting dead-center of my access to the main road. I should clarify, this is the ONLY entrance. The truck detour happens so that they can enter one side vs other of that pole. – maplemale Jun 09 '20 at 18:01
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    Got it. Not unheard of to buy a small piece of your neighbor's land (or just buy an easement to widen your driveway) for situations like these. This would still not be cheap (involving land surveying, attorneys, removing trees, dirtwork etc.). Informal agreements do happen as well, but there is a risk this becomes a problem when you try to sell your property. – PhilippNagel Jun 09 '20 at 18:08
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    @Freeman Maybe I can talk to neighbors about like a 6 ft easement to corner of their property. Specifically, the right corner pictured would be ideal to enter and save the long turn around detour. I've got a "Farm" entrance possibility along a major highway stretch of property. Still confirming the permit is good. But, it will involve putting in a bridge over a 30ft wide creek on my property that is stout enough to support loaded trucks. Also, the semi drivers don't like pulling on off the 70mph highway with no turn lanes. They already informed me of that. lol – maplemale Jun 09 '20 at 18:10
  • Thanks for replies all! Good info! – maplemale Jun 09 '20 at 18:10
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    I feel your pain. I dealt with Puget Sound Energy AND Comcast to bury some very unsightly powerlines and cables crossing my property. Extremely expensive. Engineering, installation, coordination, etc. I got it done, but it was a major PITA. – George Anderson Jun 09 '20 at 18:11
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    I've driven I-80 through Wyoming, there are more than a few 90° right turns that are officially "interstate off ramps". Your drivers should be used to those! :) I was thinking that the entrance was at the bottom right. (Re)Move the bit of fence, cut down that one tree, lay down some gravel, call it "goodish". – FreeMan Jun 09 '20 at 18:15
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    @Freeman Good point. LOL Though, this is highway 93 - people hate that highway. Ya, the ideal entrance is at the bottom right. They just can't make that corner without taking stuff out - fence, trees etc. Maybe I can just convince the neighbor to help out. Even a few feet might make it work. – maplemale Jun 09 '20 at 18:20
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    Offer to pay for the work and planting a replacement tree as a good will gesture. – FreeMan Jun 09 '20 at 18:24
  • I am a bit confused as to how the truck cannot fit through here. How big is the Semi exactly ? Surely if he is coming from the right he can slide through easily and if he is coming from the left theres even more space the other side of the pole with the bit inbetween the 2 driveways ? – GamerGypps Jun 10 '20 at 08:46
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    @GamerGypps Even a small truck, can't fit on the right at all. I couldn't get a goose neck with an F350 in that way without taking out the mailboxes (sorry, the picture is just barely missing them) and the fence. But ya, the left side has more than enough room. In order to enter the left side, it's a 15 minute detour / turn around to approach from that direction. – maplemale Jun 10 '20 at 13:57
  • Right, assuming theres enough space between the power pole and the fence can you move the mailboxes out of the way ? – GamerGypps Jun 10 '20 at 14:18
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    Honestly, if you can't pay "hundreds of dollars" for the *review* then the cost of actually replacing the pole will surely be well out of your price range. The company doesn't know how much the pole will cost to replace until they've seen the situation. – user253751 Jun 10 '20 at 14:53
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    Again, I'd suggest calling the Public Utilities Commission to see what they have to say. It couldn't hurt. These days it doesn't even cost a long-distance phone call! (Does anyone pay for long distance any more? – FreeMan Jun 10 '20 at 17:46
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    I imagine your purchase involved a title search that generated parcel descriptions and maps (get them from your county office if not). Before taking any action, consult those documents carefully, because fences, driveways, hedges, etc have a tendency to disappear or move over the years, and you might own more or less of a portion than you think. A number of times I've purchased parcels that legally varied significantly from a casual visual appraisal, even including things like forgotten easements. – joe snyder Jun 10 '20 at 20:49
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    Adding to what @FreeMan has already suggested, if this is a public nuisance (you make it sound like it is), I wonder if it's possible to call for a town meeting and get the *town* to pay for it? If it isn't just you that's benefiting... – Matthew Jun 11 '20 at 01:36

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This is a job for an easement, plain and simple.

There's another driveway right next to you that is well-situated. You need to be as quiet as a mouse about your level of desperation, and just approach that property owner and say "hey having 2 driveways is stupid, couldn't we combine?" And pay enough money to get a "yes".

Make sure it is an EASEMENT and get a lawyer involved. Easement law is a mess, that's not a thing to DIY.

Moving this pole seems super hard

I suspect moving this pole will be a nightmare, because I see a high voltage (well, 10kv-ish) up top meaning 2 poles must replace this one on the / route, then I see what looks like local lower-voltage service on the \ route, so maybe 1 but probably 2 poles to replace that. Then I also think I see phone on both routes, and I definitely see what look like phone junction boxes there at the bottom of the pole - 2 of them. Which means something needs to come in the vicinity of "here", and that may require undergrounding from where else that pole ends up.

Harper - Reinstate Monica
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    Good job identifying the three phase 13.2 kv on the top and the two fused single phase 7.6kv laterals going right and left.+ – JACK Jun 09 '20 at 22:04
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    Yea, you definitely don't want to move this pole. Not only would it have to be removed and replaced, the net it's part of will have to be redesigned to make sure no failures occur. If there's 3 services going over that pole (highV, lowV and phone), that's 3 nets. Rules and directives may have changed, so the new pole may well be much more sophisticated than the old one. Not to mention the possible outage during the move... – Mast Jun 10 '20 at 13:52
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    Looking at this again, knowing the approach is from the right of the image and that the target is the driveway on the right, I'd think it would take not only an easement to get legal access to the neighbor's driveway, but also significantly widening the driveway to give enough room for a semi w/50-60' trailer (this is the West, they allow pretty long trailers) enough room to make that corner and not take out the pole. Much easier to get an easement to the right of the target driveway, taking out the fence, tree(s) and mailboxes (not pictured). – FreeMan Jun 10 '20 at 17:42
  • @FreeMan hence "having two driveways..." not "having two road entrances" ; because you'd need to combine a significant length under any circumstances, and an agreement sharing maintenance costs all the way back to where they diverge would offer the biggest reward to the other property owner. Replenishment graveling/etc for a quarter mile driveway is a decent recurring cost. – Dan Is Fiddling By Firelight Jun 10 '20 at 18:17
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    @DanIsFiddlingByFirelight I understand that, but the neighbor to the left may not want to "give up" that much property to an easement and driveway widening project. It would take significantly _more_ land to the left of the pole for turning clearance for large trucks than it would for turning clearance to the right of the pole and an easement with the _other_ neighbor. – FreeMan Jun 10 '20 at 18:31
  • @Freeman I wish the easement was easier... Turns out the neighbor doesn't want to give that up. Also, that's kinda swampy and considered 100 year flood plain. The permitting would be terrible i'm told. Got quotes back on moving the power pole: $4500 just for the power company. Not nearly as bad as I thought. But, I still have to propose it to the phone company (century link) and cable company (charter). – maplemale Jun 23 '20 at 14:58
  • @maplemale could be worse! Do please come back and post an answer when you get this all sorted. – FreeMan Jun 23 '20 at 15:11
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I have had 2 poles moved (1 moved simple on my property, the other 1 added to move another. The first one only cost about 5k because we owned the 2 homes that this pole Fed (only 2 existing homes) and we were adding 2 more houses and needed wider access. I think we had to give up an additional 5’ right away on the property but it was not a big deal they did it the week I sent the check.

The second one was in the middle of a T much like yours but on the other side we wanted to make an x because the county would not allow for the entrance to be offset the pole was ~ 9’ on our side of the property line. 1 pole on our side one further on his side both in the existing right of way. the proposal the neighbor did not want the additional homes and tried to block it long story short the utility put in a new pole 50 or 75’ on either side of the existing pole so our road would be a 4 way that was close to 30k but it also included a new transformer to feed the houses , that was over 20 years ago the 2 pole was more expensive because it was a “heavy line” , some of the costs were county (new stop signs and paint) some were legal but the majority was moving the 1 pole and adding I think the heavier transformer was only 5k for all the houses but that took several months , once we got the OK (total over a year) it took the utility over a week on site prepping putting in the new poles and framework for the transformers. If it requires county intervention expect the costs to go up and be ready to pay close to 1k per stop sign, the main road was paved but originally the 2 turn off’s were not but because of the total number of houses down both roads they required a 4 way stop. I think 3 houses require a Stop sign & street sign. That’s what I remember.

Ed Beal
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    I did hundreds of these requests while at the power company. Sometimes, if the pole was deteriorated, I'd move it a few feet for free. + – JACK Jun 09 '20 at 22:07
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    @jack I only talked about totally up to snuff requests, when my dad was still here he had me get a few nails with numbers , pull the metal tags on the newer poles and drive the nail with a date ( a brother in law of his) told him about this, they did update those poles and transformers then we did not have to pay for an upgrade. This was back in the 70’s doubt if that would work today with computers. – Ed Beal Jun 10 '20 at 01:06
  • @EdBeal not only would I not bet on that working today, it's almost certainly illegal. – Matthew Jun 11 '20 at 01:41
  • @matthew I am sure that’s what I said in my comment, the date nails have not been l used for decades , as far as illegal they read the nail all I did was move a nail I did not ask for anything they did it based on the date. – Ed Beal Jun 11 '20 at 15:11
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Depending on a few different factors you'd be looking at $10-40k. The fact that it seems to have live lines in 4 directions and that would have to move 20+ feet to relocate over either driveway (so good chance 2 poles would replace one) makes the higher end of the range seem more likely.

Widening your driveway is likely the more practical option than paying to move the pole but for few hundred dollars you might catch a loophole that allows for avoiding it (eg. pole is not on easement, pole is not to code, etc). Personally I'd pay a few hundred to have a technician take a look at it and see if they will work with you to find a reason that the pole shouldn't have been put there in the first place.

Myles
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