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How do I have to run the SER cables from the original hole(where the SER cable goes through the wall) to the side of the new panel?

Can SER cable be exposed or needs to be inside a conduit? Conduit type? AFAIK I can not use EMT, the city inspector says that, and she is not very friendly on providing such information.

enter image description here

Edit/Update: Here is the entire picture of old and new panel enter image description here

EDIT about Service cable entrance enter image description here

cadobe
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    What's on the other side of that wall? *say the meter...say the meter...* – Harper - Reinstate Monica Jun 13 '19 at 01:10
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    The opposite side of the old panel back to back is the meter. – cadobe Jun 13 '19 at 01:18
  • Fantastic. Are you planning to entirely remove the old Zinsco panel on Cutover Day? – Harper - Reinstate Monica Jun 13 '19 at 01:32
  • Yes the old one has to go completely. The day actually will be days....somewhere over the weekend. Moneys are short and need to get the bare minimum AFCI breakers. That's why on the other question I've tried to figure out about wiring a Zinsco panel. – cadobe Jun 13 '19 at 01:49
  • They're *seriously* making you fit AFCIs for a panel swap?? Or is this other work? ... – Harper - Reinstate Monica Jun 13 '19 at 01:53
  • No, the inspector told me I need to get AFCI's for bedrooms and living room. – cadobe Jun 13 '19 at 02:20
  • Is this panel going to be surface mounted at the end of the day? It sure looks like it... – ThreePhaseEel Jun 13 '19 at 02:26
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    Also, where does the white wire that enters via the bottom left of the old panel go to? – ThreePhaseEel Jun 13 '19 at 03:13
  • @ThreePhaseEel I will frame it around, no surface mount. The inspector does not allow me to have exposed wires. Running Romex cables out of it I don't think you can run them in conduit. The white cable on the bottom it is the ground. – cadobe Jun 13 '19 at 14:40
  • It's legal to run Romex in conduit... it's just really hard. Also there are draconian and seemingly unfair rules about the number of Romex per conduit, they involve complex calculations, and a newbie *will* inadvertently violate code, get written up and have to redo. I just tore out a case of two 12/2 Romex in a 3/4” conduit, 8’ long and with a 90 degree bend in it no less. Guy who pulled that off must have felt like a hero. Totally illegal. – Harper - Reinstate Monica Jun 13 '19 at 16:02
  • If you screw plywood over the studs covers wires and can come off if you need to add more. Would help if you come into bottom of panel wires there are subject to damage in your garage. should be done. Your white ground wire should be bare, or a least add green tape to re,id it She may not like that and want it bare or all green .Thats BS . but her call.AHJ. –  Jun 13 '19 at 16:08
  • Just cover wall. No conduit needed. –  Jun 13 '19 at 16:10
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    @Robert Above the panel I will make that section removable with few screws, just in case later I need to add some more circuits. I wonder if the rigid nipple between the panel and meter(they are back to back) can be Schedule 40/80 ? – cadobe Jun 13 '19 at 19:37
  • I see that the close nipple are just rigid. – cadobe Jun 13 '19 at 19:50
  • Thats fine she may want a bonding bushing added. Bs metal to metal contact .just put on in . –  Jun 13 '19 at 19:56
  • I wouldn't fool around with PVC. No use changing conduit systems mid stream. PVC doesn't provide any more protection than cable sheath, so if there's a problem there, it'll fuel the fire, not contain it. It sure wouldn't be allowed in industrial, no way no how. – Harper - Reinstate Monica Jun 13 '19 at 20:22
  • Like how they use SEU fitting to bring in wires. So wrong old school.Never pass .Unless rated for it. –  Jun 13 '19 at 22:03
  • @cadobe -- how wide/deep is the original box? I have a suspicion that the "cripple wall" Harper mentioned might not be that at all, but framing around a box that was narrower than the stud bay it went into.... – ThreePhaseEel Jun 13 '19 at 22:27

2 Answers2

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I see where there is a cripple wall or something preventing you from fitting the new taller panel where the Zinsco had been.

Well first, I would go back to the drawing board and see if I could find a panel that fits inside the space the old Zinsco is coming out of. However your first priority is a whole lot of spaces, so I would only bother looking at CH or QO, since they put 40 spaces where other panels only put 30. In this day and age, you want 40.

If you just can't find a 40 that fits there at sane price, then continue with your original plan.

I presume you've considered laying a piece of plywood atop the pictured joists where the Zinsco was, with the new panel's entry hole lined up perfect with the conduit nipple, and extending the nipple as needed. I can see where that would create an access problem for one conduit entry at the bottom. Okay.

I consider the idea of using exposed flexible cable to be beneath discussion. It is on the wrong side of the main breaker, if it got hit with something, nothing would stop the arc fire. The bend would be freakish and very, very hard. You need XHHW single conductors just to make this DIY doable, and that needs conduit.

But that's no big.

Oh? She doesn't want EMT? Alrighty then... use RIGID. Realistically, you will need a conduit body to turn that corner anyway. That leaves only about 3 inches to go with actual conduit. Rigid is pricey stuff, but that doesn't matter for 3 inches.

enter image description here

When you tear out that ZINSCO panel, there will be a "pipe nut" that you unwind with a hammer and screwdriver. Once the panel is out, underneath that is probably a Rigid pipe nipple (a nipple is a short pipe) with pipe threads. Test fit the conduit body and see how much distance you need. You either replace that nipple with a longer one, or add a coupler and a short nipple to reach the conduit body, depending on what is practicable.

With Rigid conduit, you go to a competent hardware store who cuts and threads pipe (and shoplifters), and buy the right length and have them thread it.

Now, the only other risk is that the conduit body is so wide that it forces the new panel to the left. Could be. If that knocks it off the joists, get a sheet of 3/4” plywood about 33.5" (or wide enough to span 3 joists and 2 spaces) x the height of the new panel + 6”.

Then, you will need to account for the thickness of the plywood in the above nipple. So test fit everything first!

Then, you use appropriate sized XHHW wire. If the price of copper wire gives you pause, use aluminum wire 2 sizes larger. All 100A+ terminals are designed for aluminum wire and have aluminum lugs.

Remember, this is a whole domicile service, so you get the 83% favorable derate from NEC 310.15B7.

Harper - Reinstate Monica
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  • Yes indeed. The first option I think is the best one. Economical and work wise. – cadobe Jun 13 '19 at 14:43
  • This hole thing is based on ,if he needs SER or SEU. Main or sub- panel. Or did code change ? –  Jun 13 '19 at 16:29
  • AFAIK SER is used when cables run from the roof/outside and SEU is used mainly buried. My case the mast penetrate the roof going down the wall. – cadobe Jun 13 '19 at 19:39
  • Seu is used for riser ,and going to panel has been for years .thats why the have to sill seal,to protect it to keep water out. –  Jun 13 '19 at 20:14
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    Well you know I'm captain conduit :) I like conduit because it's legacy and so there may be a code issue with hork-a-dorking some cable through the conduit gap; because conduit is safer and provides a ground path; and because individual XHHW wires will be much easier for a novice to wrangle. – Harper - Reinstate Monica Jun 13 '19 at 20:18
  • Well cap, pipe is good and money and labor add up.. Your house in pipe/ You run pipe no ground, rely on fittings.I stoped doing that years ago . –  Jun 13 '19 at 20:25
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Many ways to do this. First, is this the main panel? If so, SEU is the wire needed. Two hots And a ground.

If you have a meter main, or breaker outside, then the panel is a sub-panel and you need 4 wire ser. I don't see why you can not nipple through meter into panel. And remove the short studs in the way. Use pvc as it's a little easier to work with.

SEU is allowed and is done all the time without conduit. Just have to watch length of wire. And you could sleeve it to protect or not.

Make sure you bond the panel if a main, which should come with bond screw, or you have to get ground bar to add to panel and not bond panel. White or neutral to bar on panel. Bare grounds to added ground bar. Also check the ground rods . and wire to them.

If this the main panel run water bond to it. If sub-panel water bond goes to meter main outside.Cover hole bay with plywood, screw on so easy to add wires later. And mark the ground wire, green tape or bare. By doing this you do not have to run cable in conduit. Only were they are open in the garage which should be done where they come down to outlets or switches. Up high on joist is ok as long as nothing stored up there.

isherwood
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  • Can you take a look to the last image on my question? What type of cables are those? The panel is Main panel. Why should I use SEU since SEU stands for "Service Entrance Underground Cable"? The panel is 200 Amps so I need to go with AL 4/0-4/0-4/0-2/0 right? – cadobe Jun 13 '19 at 20:40
  • Yes not .Ser if that is main panel..Or copper or alum. Wires if going through pipe or nipples. Wire cable not needed.. –  Jun 13 '19 at 20:43
  • They are single wires. Not a Seu cable going through a close nipple .The way you should do it. –  Jun 13 '19 at 20:55
  • I have seen pipe jump on shorts and fitting loosen up'There goes path to ground. Code plus pull ground wire. –  Jun 13 '19 at 21:37
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    @RobertMoody I would never fault someone throwing a ground wire in the pipe. Belt and suspenders. Especially if there's any chance of the pipe getting banged up. Just had one of those with an A/C unit run... steel wire holding a duct broke, laid on the conduit, separated the joint ... I fixed it but then, a jackass tried to steal the A/c unit with the power on, broke the conduit ground path at the unit, grounded a hot and got a hell of a shock... decided not to steal it after all. I'm not running a ground wire there lol! – Harper - Reinstate Monica Jun 13 '19 at 22:13
  • Got ya.Both fine.More than one way to skin a cat. –  Jun 13 '19 at 22:17