3

I moved from Europe to the USA(OH). I noticed a couple of things that worry me. Every house in the US that I entered makes cracking or squeaking noise. I never experienced this in Europe buildings. I just need reassurance this is normal and safe. I'm not trying to judge or say something is better or worse.

Last night we had high winds and the whole house was making this noise. The roof is made of wooden rafters. Something like this:

enter image description here

or

enter image description here

The wooden beams look much thinner compared to the ones used in Europe, see img below: enter image description here

The house will end up looking something like this:

enter image description here

I actuallly lived in a house that looked similar to this one below:

enter image description here

I never experienced this house making any noise, wasn't even able to hear the wind outside.

My question is: Is it normal that the houses constantly make cracking noises when temperature changes or winds are present. Is there anything I can do to fix this issue? Is it safe and can these wooden framed houses withstand high winds, tornados? Especially the roof? The funny thing is that the house I live in now is pretty old(1945) the only thing that is between the roof studs and second floor is drywall. If a tornado rips the roof the drywall would fly away like paper. The house doesn't have a basement so I can't hide anywhere. Why there is no more demand from the public to build houses that don't make cracking and squeaking noise?

Grasper
  • 424
  • 3
  • 10
  • 19
  • 2
    FYI, "studs" are always vertical, and always part of a wall. Horizontal floor and ceiling members are "joists" and/or "truss chords", respectively. – isherwood Mar 01 '17 at 15:53
  • To make an understatment stud wall construction is not very resistant to tornado force winds. In US tornado country many people have underground tornado shelters. But I was under the impression that the UK and Europe did not even have tornadoes or hurricanes, so possibly from an economic standpoint houses in Europe are overbuilt. I guess the owners and renters paid more for housing that did people in the US. Some of the savings in housing in the US went for purchasing other things, such as cars. I understand that in Europe private car ownership ($$$) is less common. – Jim Stewart Mar 01 '17 at 16:01
  • @JimStewart, everyone owns the car now. Houses might be overbuilt but people got used to this standard and won't go lower. The quality is more important than the actual necessity. – Grasper Mar 01 '17 at 16:06
  • The roof trusses are thinner, but are of closer pitch, commonly 30-40cm centers. Doubling the width of a beam does not double its strength, so more thinner beams may be better. We do have tornado-resistant structures in the US; they are called *missile silos*. Seriously, tornadoes are a *hard* problem. Tornadoes create an explosive underpressure (vacuum); the best anti-tornado buildings have intentional blowouts to depressurize the building with minimal damage. – Harper - Reinstate Monica Mar 01 '17 at 18:43
  • 4
    @JimStewart I'm not sure where you get your information about Europe, but it's not very accurate. We certainly have (small) tornadoes, and sometimes 100-mph winds, in the UK. But the only wood-framed houses are likely to have been built around the time of Columbus, and if they have survived since then they probably aren't going to collapse in the next storm! The basic reason we stopped building wood houses (centuries ago) was the lack of wood. There's no sense importing wood from outside Europe just to build houses, when you can easily use locally produced bricks instead. – alephzero Mar 01 '17 at 19:07
  • 1
    For what it's worth, the roof in 'European' picture looks really flimsy compared to how roofs are built in my area but that's probably related to the snow load. Generally roofs in my region would be built with 2 X 10s or 2 X 12s 16 inches on center. The euro-roof you show appears to have much wider spacing than the stick frames in your other pics. It's not just how large the boards and timbers are that matters, it's how far apart they are. For example, a house built with 2X6 studs can have more spacing between them than a house with 2X4 studs. – JimmyJames Mar 01 '17 at 19:26
  • alephzero, I probably misinterpreted the statement from a UK poster here (http://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/109463/what-would-cause-my-shower-water-to-start-hot-and-then-after-a-minute-settle-o). "I am a UK homeowner with a residence we describe as "new build" (made in the last 8 years, timber frame etc)." I admit that I sometimes assert things which I haven't fully verified, and depend on being corrected. Does "new build . . . timber frame" mean something different from US style wood frame with 2 x 4 or 6 studs? – Jim Stewart Mar 01 '17 at 19:56
  • alephzero, does the average Briton or Europeans spend a greater percent of his income on housing than an American? Or would a yes or no answer be misleading without a lot of context, such as, e.g., the health care expenditures of individuals in the US? We are supposedly the richest country in the world, but our infrastructure seems to be generally inferior to countries in western Europe. – Jim Stewart Mar 01 '17 at 20:00
  • "constantly making cracking noises" -- this sounds like a bit much. Having lived in several different parts of the country, I can say it's ordinary to make occasional noises, but I would not use the word "constantly". If that's a slight exaggeration, it's no big deal. But if taken literally, then the house is outside the norm. – donjuedo Mar 01 '17 at 22:42
  • 1
    The average newly built UK house looks like this: http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/business/business-news/barratt-homes-build-2100-new-4982012 - Barratt build them by the thousands. Timber framing is much less common (25% of new build according to https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/nov/12/prefabs-britain-timber-frame-persimmon ). Timber really is more expensive than brick. UK house prices are mostly determined by land cost and financing rather than actual construction; many new expensive apartments have flimsy plasterboard and inadequate soundproofing. – pjc50 Mar 02 '17 at 00:04
  • 2
    (The UK went down to about 5% tree cover in the early 1800s and only since WW2 has mass planting of conifers brought this back up. Structural grade timber is expensive, only pine and wood products like OSB and MDF are cheap) – pjc50 Mar 02 '17 at 00:15

2 Answers2

7

Roof construction varies depending on where you live. In the north you need to build to contend with a heavy snow load so roof trusses are more numerous and stronger. Sothern climes, not so much. Further, the roof cladding makes a difference. Many roofs in Europe are covered with tile or slate, which is heavy and needs the extra support.

All buildings will creak and groan to some extent in the wind even steel high-rises. Though you may not notice in stronger buildings.

As for tornadoes.... If the roof blows off.. the drywall wont matter.

In some cases, wood frame is actually better than say brick. A wood frame house will creak and groan and bend, but except in the strongest wind, will not, if constructed correctly, catastrophically fail like a brick or cinder build building. In hurricane areas you will often find the timber frame buildings still standing surrounded by piles of rubble. Same goes for earthquake regions.

One more thing though. Creaking and growning is ok... Banging is not and is an indication that a roof panel has come away from its fastening and should be corrected immediately.

Trevor_G
  • 1,342
  • 6
  • 12
  • Thanks, what are the chance the roof could blow off? Did it ever happen? Why doesn't the attic have floor to serve as an extra protective layer? – Grasper Mar 01 '17 at 15:42
  • 7
    Trust me.. if your house gets hit with a tornado you are screwed no matter how it's built. – Trevor_G Mar 01 '17 at 15:44
  • 2
    Fortunately, the probability of being hit by a tornado are small. "A second opinion according to BookOfOdds.com "those odds [of being hit by a tornado] are 1 in 4,513,000. It is more likely a person will die from a fall off a cliff-1 in 4,101,000-or will be diagnosed with leprosy-1 in 2,930,000."".. SO stay away from cliffs and lepers and you will be fine. – Trevor_G Mar 01 '17 at 15:46
  • Also, a tornado is not a tornado. They vary vastly in structure and strength. Many modern homes would survive F0 or F1 tornadoes with mostly aesthetic damage. Truss hold-down clips are becoming more common. – isherwood Mar 01 '17 at 15:51
  • 1
    Twelve or so years ago my sister bought a new 1500 sq ft house in a one-street tract development just outside the city limits of Gulfport MS. These 'smaller' houses were built by a quality builder who had been building larger ones. Her house was 2x4 stud wood frame with brick veneer, and was absolutely solid by MS hurricane code standards. She stayed in the house as Hurricane Katrina passed through snug as could be and lost 1/2 sq of shingles. I visited her many times and I never heard a creak. She recently sold the house in perfect condition for ca $140k. – Jim Stewart Mar 01 '17 at 16:34
  • Our 2100 sq ft tract house in Dallas was built in 1970 by a high volume builder and its truss roof creaks. We bought it in 1978 for $62k. Friends in the UK paid a lot more for better built houses. My parents had a 1200 sq ft house custom built in New Iberia LA in about 1975 by a builder who normally built large, quality custom homes. He used 1/2" plywood on underside of ceiling joists and interior side of *all* walls. The exterior was brick facade; interior was drywall on walls and 12x12" cellulose tiles stapled to the ceilings. I'd like to have that, but it is excess. – Jim Stewart Mar 01 '17 at 16:47
  • For a long time in the US quality construction was 2x6 studs in the exterior walls and 2x4 in interior. I was commenting (sorta complaining/apologizing) to a retired custom builder about the light duty construction of my house: 2x4 trusses 24" OC, no blocking between trusses, 3/8" plywood roof sheathing (springy), 2x4 studs 24"OC, etc. He said, "The house is 47 years old and no major problems, right? My houses in California were 99%perfect, but to achieve that I had to cultivate a reputation for being crazy with subcontractors, and my reputation was *not* a bluff." – Jim Stewart Mar 01 '17 at 17:03
  • @JimStewart, yup there is no doubt construction standards and workmanship has gone downhill over the decades. Many of today's new houses are primarily all surface glitz with comparatively poor backbones. – Trevor_G Mar 01 '17 at 17:07
  • Maybe 20 years ago a tornado passed through part of Dallas. A guy told me his house was on the edge of the track and was de-roofed with walls still standing. As best I can remember he said he could see daylight through his living room ceiling. – Jim Stewart Mar 01 '17 at 20:24
5

In a word--money. Wood frame stud construction has been the norm in the US for mass housing for a long time, and I am given to understand that newer houses in the UK are being built this way. It is much cheaper than the heavy timber and 'stone built' constructions which have been the standard construction techniques in Europe for centuries. Stud wall construction can be constructed by carpenters of varying skill levels, whereas traditional European techniques require the abilities of skilled craftsmen.

From what I hear most people of modest means in Europe do not 'own' a fully-detached house or even a semi-detached one (in the US one half of a duplex). Home ownership is seemingly more important in the US and to achieve this cheaper construction was called for.

Roof construction is either 'stick-built' or trusses or a combination. Trusses are even more parsimonious with material than stick-built, but can be even more creaky than stick-built.

Edit Roof construction is 'stick built' or trusses or a combination.

On my bike ride today I looked at a house under construction in a neighborhood we could have bought in 39 years ago. There was a rail track right behind the house we looked at with freight trains going through at all hours; we passed. This was a tract development of light duty single story houses <2500 sq ft on 16,000 sq ft lots. Ten years after we looked, the rail line was taken out and it is now slated for a bike path.

The original houses (~ $65k in 1978) are now going for $500k to $600k for the lots. The new houses are two-story >6000 sq ft well designed and constructed. The permit on the house I looked today stated value of the construction $554k for 6400 sq ft. The outside studs were 2x6 and the walls were fully sheathed in OSB. High ceilings and a tremendous amount of 2 x lumber. Roof stick built with ridge beam and collar ties every other rafter. Demonstration panel indicates cladding will be a mixture of brick and stainless steel (scratches show shiny metal) panels with a grey finish. Roof will be standing-seam metal. There is a lot of quality construction in the US today.

Edit more In looking at this 6400 sq ft house yesterday I saw a lot of joist hangers, but I did not see what are sometimes called 'hurricane ties' (metal strapping tying roof rafters to wall studs. I am sure this is not required by our local code, but it would seem to be a sensible enhancement to a stud wall structure.

Twelve years ago I talked to guy who was having a new house constructed in a 'boom town' suburb north of Dallas proper. He wanted his builder to add Simpson Strong Tie connectors, but the builder resisted saying it would greatly increase the cost, complicate construction, was not in the contract . . . The owner persisted and himself purchased all the connectors he wanted. The builder grumbled but installed them, and in the end the builder said it wasn't that much extra work.

Jim Stewart
  • 19,878
  • 1
  • 29
  • 47
  • Koodos for "parsimonious".. I had to look THAT one up :) – Trevor_G Mar 01 '17 at 15:40
  • I always hear the word "money" which surprises me because eastern Europeans don't seem to have them much and still build houses from concrete blocks. – Grasper Mar 01 '17 at 15:44
  • Maybe you meant "within the category of roof construction" in the final paragraph. I haven't heard of truss walls. Or maybe you meant something else altogether with that sentence. At any rate, it could use fixin'. – isherwood Mar 01 '17 at 15:49
  • 3
    It's also about availability and transportation costs though. In many regions of North America, suitable stone for building simply is not readily available locally and is cost prohibitive to transport. Timber on the other hand is more available, is renewable, and is relatively cheap to ship. – Trevor_G Mar 01 '17 at 15:50
  • 4
    Note that the USA has 1/3 the population density of the EU. There is a lot of wilderness and/or places to grow trees in the USA. If you take North America as a whole, the ratio gets even more extreme (Canada is larger than the USA, and 1/10th the population). There is lots of places to grow wood in the USA; less so in Europe. – Yakk Mar 01 '17 at 16:26
  • In the Florida peninsula, most houses are concrete block due to there being lots of sand available and little timber. Roofs are trusses and/or stick-built. To save money over hiering skilled block-layers, often the outside gets a coat of stucco (troweled on like plaster) before painting. This hides the uneven blocks typical of the semi-skilled block-layers. – DocSalvager Mar 07 '17 at 14:10