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In category theory as practiced, there is this phrase "generalized abstract nonsense" (GAN), which is often used to cover sections of a derivation/judgment(?) that the audience is meant to either understand or accept on the "authority" (not quite) of the lecturer. I haven't read enough actual category-theory essays to say definitively, but there is another phrase "too simple to be simple" that seems as if it might pertain to the kind of cases in which it is permissible to reason from/through GAN:

Quite often, classical references will define ‘simple’ (or an analogous term) in naïve way, so that a ‘trivial’ object is simple, but later it will become clear that more sophisticated theorems (especially classification theorems) work better if the definition is changed so that the trivial object is not simple. Usually this can be done by changing ‘if’ to ‘iff’ (or sometimes changing ‘or’ to ‘xor’) in the classical definition.

Now, I was trying to see if I could say anything worthwhile by attempting to put my deontic questions/theories into a category-theoretic, as opposed to a set/type-theoretic, format, but so I was trying to come up with my own category theory as a whole, then. My point of departure was the general-particular distinction and the encoding-exemplifying distinction (from Edward Zalta): e.g., a particular term whose predications were true through the encoding relation was a trope, whereas encodable generalities were attributes of substances, say, or exemplifiable generalities were concrete universals (a phrase I've seen here and there, most perniciously in the work of Cornelius van Til, a Reformed epistemologist (not well-known in the way that Plantinga is, say)). Eventually, the scheme spiraled out of control and so also for other reasons did I more or less give up on trying to neatly package my categories in some simplified range.

Now, I have kept the following from the precursor to the above scheme, though. Let F be generality, f particularity. Then:

  1. F > f: if a term is more general than particular, it refers to an abstract object.
  2. F < f: the term covers a concrete object.
  3. F = f: "equimorphic" objects, e.g. divine simplicity, maybe the Tao (as symbolized by ☯ instead of 道).
  4. Ff: the object's degree of generality is incommensurate with its degree of particularity: it is not more or less particular, per its particularity, than it is general over its own generalities. This kind of object, even if logically possible, is absurd.

My gloss, so far, of the "too simple to be simple" phenomenon is that a more complex scheme S can have a simpler base instance i, while some simpler scheme T will have a more complex base case j. But this makes it look like i or j have "absurd" degrees of simplicity/complexity. In fact, I did wonder if the mereological relation would be equimorphic, i.e. parts and wholes are equally particular and general, with a whole being a part considered on the generalized end of the local terminology, a part being a whole too, though, considered on the particular end of things, here. And simplicity/complexity pertain to mereology, often enough, even on an abstract level.

One might think that GAN-talk could not be put as "generalized abstract absurdity," in that one might think e.g. that the "N" in "GAN" has a Wittgensteinian meaning. So though Wittgenstein distinguished nonsense from senselessness in some sense(!), he did not mean to say that nonsensical (or senseless) things are "absurd." (Or did he? I actually don't know if Wittgenstein ever offered substantive commentary on the word "absurdity.") Yet, taking stock of all the whimsical terms that appear in higher mathematics, one might get the impression that category theorists, with GAN-talk, are indicating a kind of surreal pattern of reasoning. Is the phrase "too simple to be simple" an example of GAN-talk under the absurditarian(!) interpretation?

Partial option for sufficient answers: reference-requests for Wittgenstein or others on the concept of absurdity, from an analytic-philosophy or analytic-adjacent POV perhaps (though I think the issue appears in continental philosophy at greater length, maybe).

EDIT: some contention has arisen over my apparent conflation of Aristotle/Kant-themed category-talk, and the use of the word "category" in the name of mathematical category theory. This PhilosophySE post addresses that specific issue, and shows the continuity (historical, but also to some extent conceptual) between old-school category talk and the newer-wave use of the word.

And given Kant's deduction of his own categories, it seems like it would be easy (and I imagine, has already been done!) to translate his deduction into modern talk of morphisms, objects, etc. The 12 first-order categories fall under four next-order headings, and Kant says something that could easily be phrased as "functions g and f, as categories under a heading, are composed to yield the third category under each heading." So the four headings are like metacategories, and these then get compressed into Kant's distinction between mathematical and dynamical categories, which is a third-order category. And so the similarities between second-order categories, as well as their differentiae, presumably pertain to concepts like isomorphisms (or the lack thereof, with some weaker, if similar, relation the only one to be found). Furthermore, if Paul Corazza can talk about a "category theory of large cardinals", or if this peer-reviewed, published essay on deontic logic involves applying category theory to the categorical imperative (no less!), I really don't see why it would be impossible to compare the impossibility of finitely listing proper ontological categories, to the open-endedness of mathematical category theory (which was the interval of my apparent conflation of the two domains of discourse). One of the major themes of category theory is finding connections between zones of concepts that might seem relatively unrelated and so finding a connection, which in the historical, academic origination of category theory was referred to anyway, between the ontological use of the word "category" and the use of the word in this modern mathematical discipline/framework, seems to be what we should expect (if we take the mathematical framework itself seriously, here).

Kristian Berry
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    I think you have a misunderstanding about what category theory is. Your second paragraph links to the SEP article on ontological categories. Category theory in mathematics has nothing to do with ontological categories. Putting your ideas in categories is not "category-theoretic." Category theory is the study of mathematical structures consisting of "objects" and "arrows" that satisfy certain axioms. – causative Mar 09 '23 at 10:03
  • @causative the SEP article on CT says the name comes from the tradition incl. Aristotle and Kant. Category theorists were not concerned to introduce some zone of concepts entirely *de novo* seeing as mathematicians as a community are less prone to the illusion of disagreement. So now CTists don't have to suppose that there are a finite range of categories but can suppose their common form can be copied without end. – Kristian Berry Mar 09 '23 at 12:45
  • 1. Where the name for CT comes from doesn't matter - it's an arbitrary name. They might as well have called it "Thingamabob Theory." Categories in mathematics are structures with very specific properties, that shouldn't be confused with categories in natural language or ontological categories. 2. Yes, you can talk about your own categories. But they aren't the categories of category theory unless you have objects, arrows, and a composition of arrows operation, that obey the category theory axioms. Just organizing ideas in ontological categories does not achieve this. – causative Mar 09 '23 at 15:58
  • @causative I didn't have any justification for going over the entirety of my "system"/toy concept, here. The relevant point of contact is that "generalized abstract nonsense" is a category-theoretic phrase that twice over refers to the core condition at play in the toy system (the {F, f}-ordering), and since there is such a thing as *n*-category theory, or metacategory theory by origin (the result of a "category of categories"), this translation (of category theory, via its logic-theoretic counterparts) into the {F, f}-ordering doesn't seem out of place at all. – Kristian Berry Mar 09 '23 at 16:50
  • Moreover, to my knowledge the name was **not** chosen at random, or out of vapid convenience, but deliberately. At any rate, it is not as if category theory is free of any philosophical questions or presuppositions internally, and looking for a correlation between one level of philosophical concepts and another, in this context, is what I would be doing. I'm not addressing some introductory understanding of category theory but something deep within its interior (nontrivial triviality, or trivial nontriviality; or metatriviality, maybe). – Kristian Berry Mar 09 '23 at 17:02
  • @causative Kristian has repeatedly manifested knowledge exemplifying a profound understanding between the differences of linguistic categorization and category-theoretic foundations. He seems to be the site's most interested user in mathematical foundations. The use of 'categories' is sufficiently differentiated in the paragraph to evince an awareness. – J D Mar 09 '23 at 21:41
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    @jd Not so far as I can discern. – user4894 Mar 09 '23 at 22:32
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    "Abstract nonsense" does not indicate acceptance on authority or "generality in general" or "surreality", it is more specific. It refers to arrow chasing in diagrams, as it makes explicit relying on "pure form/structure" devoid of "content". Wittgenstein's "nonsense" does mean senselessness, it is something devoid of *both* form and content that only has impact (perlocutionary force, to use Austin's term). He did not distinguish it from absurdity, but see [Kind, p.39](https://digitalcommons.denison.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1028&context=episteme) on his "patent" vs "disguised" nonsense. – Conifold Mar 09 '23 at 23:07
  • @Conifold I should've used a different word than "authority," although it is closest to what I have in mind out of the words that came to my mind, something like "condensed proof"/"common knowledge" needs to be added in to what I meant. Not the authority of individual mathematicians, even those speaking GAN-speak, but something about the mathematical community "as a whole." But I didn't know about arrow chasing's role in the actual concept of GAN, so that's helpful (perhaps I could find a "slot" for the concept of absurdity in an obscure graph-theory relation). – Kristian Berry Mar 10 '23 at 08:08

1 Answers1

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Is the phrase "too simple to be simple" an example of GAN-talk under the absurditarian(!) interpretation?

No. First, a few clarificatory remarks.

  • Later LW in PI used the term "Unsinn" (nonsense, absurdity) in contradiction to an alternate German word "sinnloss" (not possessing sense). He clearly talked about the conceptual difference. See my inventory in PI of these terms here.
  • Generalized abstracted nonsense is a tounge-in-cheek neologism for a very real psycholinguistic experience. It's possible to look at a mathematical proof, computer code, or formal logic, recognize every symbol (the letters, the relations, grouping) and have absolutely NO idea what it means. I always treat formalisms as cryptograms personally. Math papers are rigorous, but they are often not very good examples of clear, explanatory exposition. So, strictly speaking, the passages are meaningful, however not clear since the resulting syntax that results from abstractions upon abstractions (topoi derived from categories abstracted from set-theory from the logic ZFC itself rooted in natural language). It's a useful term. Lots of academics make their bread and butter reading, writing, and publishing GAN. GAN is an experience or property in regards to very difficult, complicated abstraction.
  • Now, "too simple to be simple" is also meaningful and is also useful. It might be helpful to think of it applying to first instances from which a sequence derives, but the rest of the sequence obeys the rules, where the very first item, the small item, otherwise creates problems and is complicated. Think in abstract algebra. A group has three requirements, associativity, an identity, and an inverse. Many things which a group can represent often have rules that apply WITH THE EXCEPTION of the identity itself. For instance, making one prime or composite should be simple, since 1 is, among naturals literally the simplest; except its not because it's so simple, it creates problem. When one says "number times 1", and number refers to 1, we're good, but now we have a prime with only one factor and all of our theorems might apply to primes of 2 factors. Easiest just to throw the case out than to deal with ad hoc statements in the axiomatic method.

Now, what is the relationship between GAN and TSTBS? GAN and TSTBS are both dialetheia. It may feel like TSTBS should be recognized as GAN because of the paradox inherent in the language makes it difficult to apprehend at first glance. After all, isn't it absurd to be so simple implies its complicated? It tickles our contradiction catcher.

But I think you're being too literal by interpreting the absurdity (nonsense) in GAN literally. What is meant by GAN is Unsinn, not sinloss which are easy to confuse. GAN is something that appears to be nonsensical because its so semantically dense, it overwhelms the viewer at first, but math proofs are VERY meaningful. Too complicated to be complicated. (In fact, one can indeed parse GAN in small pieces simply.) And TSTBS is something that seems so semantically simple, but then turns out to entail so much work in semantic grounding, that underwhelms the viewer at first. But both are dialetheia in their formulation and set off our contradiction "spider senses", both are pragmatic uses of language to describe a psycholinguistically very real experience when dealing semantic intuitions derived from complexity and simplicity of syntax.

J D
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  • "Many things which a group can represent often have rules that apply WITH THE EXCEPTION of the identity itself. For instance, making one prime or composite should be simple, since 1 is, among naturals literally the simplest; except its not because it's so simple, it creates problem. When one says "number times 1", and number refers to 1, we're good, but now we have a prime with only one factor and all of our theorems might apply to primes of 2 factors. Easiest just to throw the case out than to deal with ad hoc statements in the axiomatic method." is a bit obscure – Frank Mar 10 '23 at 01:27
  • What's the relationship between group, almost groups with no identity (?) and 1 being a prime or not?? – Frank Mar 10 '23 at 01:28
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    @Frank 1 not prime illustrates TSTBS as per https://ncatlab.org/nlab/show/too+simple+to+be+simple, and I was trying to suggest that there are perhaps certain types of primitives of formal systems that systematically appear to qualify for TSTBS. The choice to exclude one as prime is a concrete example, and the choice to consider the identity element of a group is an abstract example since the same reference includes the trivial group regarding the cardinality of the set with the identity as the sole element. I guess my wording doesn't communicate that explicitly. – J D Mar 10 '23 at 04:15
  • The reference to dialetheias makes this answer. I do want to add that I am implicitly differentiating absurdity from nonsense/senselessness, I want to find a way for "surd beings" to be logically possible and substantive, albeit highly unusual from our normal POV (an object whose general features are not more or less general than its particular features, but not equally general or particular either, might be inconsistent, but I'm not sure). – Kristian Berry Mar 10 '23 at 08:11
  • TSTBS looks like much ado about nothing to me. If you need 1 to be/not be prime at some point because it works better, fine, we change the definition. But unless you know the rest of the theory, you can't use TSTBS a priori to clarify the "boundary cases". I think TSTBS is applied retroactively, which makes it less valuable to me. It's just part of refining definitions as the study of a theory progresses, not some high-brow principle that one can use productively when starting the study of a theory. – Frank Mar 10 '23 at 15:24
  • @Frank TSTBS is no principle at all. It's a property of axiomatic systems. I recognized it across my undergraduate classes, but wasn't even aware there was a term for it until this post. (Thanks, KB.) And it's not a mathematical property, but a linguistic one. If one takes a look at a number of formal mathematical theories, it simply reoccurs that there is a necessary primitive which later complicates theorems and needs to be ad hoc addressed to keep the theorems simple. – J D Mar 10 '23 at 15:29
  • @Frank The relevance and utility of TSTBS comes from abstracting formalisms such as those of math, logic, and computer science in formal systems to the point and noting that they all are subject to a consistent set of syntactic and semantic rules and properties. At least IMNSHO. – J D Mar 10 '23 at 15:31
  • @KristianBerry You mean surd being as in irrationals or incommensrate quantities? That you are fundamentally interested in emphasizing there's are ontic categories that explicitly embrace contradiction as necessary conditions? Does this category admit more than irrationals? – J D Mar 10 '23 at 15:34
  • @JD He means "surd" as an abbreviation for "absurd". – Frank Mar 10 '23 at 15:49
  • @Frank Oh, psychic. lol See entry 2 in MW. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/surd – J D Mar 10 '23 at 15:52
  • @Frank I would reread the parenthetic stuff he included in his comment directly above. I didn't quite understand all of his post (I never do because thinks very abstractly), so I'm trying to decipher his wider aim regarding a contradiction in generality and specificity as necessary ontic conditions. – J D Mar 10 '23 at 15:54
  • @Frank NM. It's in his OP. "F ≹ f: the object's degree of generality is incommensurate with its degree of particularity: it is not more or less particular, per its particularity, than it is general over its own generalities. This kind of object, even if logically possible, is absurd." Now I just have to figure out what this means and its relationship to tropes which make only a modicum of sense to me. – J D Mar 10 '23 at 16:00
  • @JD I really don't think he means "surd" as irrational numbers. He uses the word "absurd" explicitly, hence my inference that "surd beings" are a new term to describe "absurd" objects that meet his requirements. – Frank Mar 10 '23 at 16:19
  • @JD to an extent, I have in mind the entities in Douglas Hofstadter's fantasy sections from *GEB*. So, M. C. Escher drawings might be an example: e.g., the hands drawing each other are such that neither hand is more or less particular than each other. OTOH they seem equal per the theme of the picture, which would go to (F = f) and not ( F incommensurable with f). So I'm not sure the idea applies even to my hoped-for example... – Kristian Berry Mar 10 '23 at 16:19
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    @Frank Horse's mouth has spoken. You're right of course about incommensurability. I'm just shaking the tree and seeing what comes out. :D – J D Mar 10 '23 at 16:49