To elaborate, I would like to take the definition of square as example, the square is shape with four equal sides and either two sides form a 90 degrees angle, while we can not directly see it. What we see is square with four 10 inches sides or other sizes. That means it is impossible to imagine what a general square look like. I think this conclusion is against common sense, however, I cannot figure out where I am wrong
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How is a square defined? – Agent Smith Mar 09 '23 at 07:53
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it is not 90 degrees angel, it is pi/2 – άνθρωπος Mar 09 '23 at 08:21
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2This issue was encountered by Locke in his idea of a general triangle, "*neither oblique nor rectangle, neither equilateral, equicrural, nor scalenon, but all and none of these at once*", for which he was criticized by Berkeley. A solution later offered by Kant was that the idea of a general triangle is not an image at all, hence need not be imagined. It is rather a "schema", a sort of mental algorithm for generating and/or recognizing triangular images, which can produce "all of these", but "none at once". Abstraction consists in developing such an algorithm from observed instances. – Conifold Mar 09 '23 at 08:35
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@Conifold, I don't recall Kant's discussion. Was it in Critique of Pure Reason? Berkeley's solution seemed pretty good. He said that we don't work with an abstract triangle but with a concrete triangle, but since we don't use in our proof the specific features of the concrete triangle, we know that the same proof applies to any triangle. He was essentially claiming that the proof is actually a proof schema. – David Gudeman Mar 09 '23 at 08:45
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@DavidGudeman It is in the notorious Schematism section:"*The conception of a dog indicates a rule, according to which my imagination can delineate the figure of a four-footed animal in general, without being limited to any particular individual form*". In A140ff schema as "*universal procedure of imagination in making an image for a concept*" is applied to triangles specifically. I like [Pippin's, Schematism and Empirical Concepts](https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/kant.1976.67.1-4.156) and [Pendlebury's, Making Sense of Kant's Schematism](https://www.jstor.org/stable/2108332). – Conifold Mar 09 '23 at 09:15
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1In evolution we learned to evade all lions, not just a particular one. We 'generalize' by noting a "good enough" match. It is probably the first task we built computer "neural networks" to perform. Not that complex. I don't see the obstacle to imagining a general square, it simply scales in size, something our vision system is very used to. Give your billion years of life experience more credit :-) – Scott Rowe Mar 09 '23 at 11:18
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With respect to neurology, consider [latent space](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_space) and [cluster analysis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_analysis), both of which presumably apply equally to natural and artificial neural networks. In terms of psychology, consider [assimilation and accommodation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaget's_theory_of_cognitive_development). – Michael Mar 09 '23 at 15:46
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1Greeks gave us the idea of geometric quantities not tied to specific numbers, "abstracting" from numbers tied to physical measurements to line segments and lengths expressed in ratios for example. Areas, volumes, angles and lengths as ratios can all be defined without specific numbers. Philosophers loved this idea and kept made sure it spread. Gouvêa, William P. Berlinghoff, Fernando Q. Math through the Ages. MBS Direct, American Mathematical Society, 2020. It means we can think about these things without sense data or empirical measurements. This is just a brief overview of the genesis – J Kusin Mar 09 '23 at 20:48
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https://www.verywellmind.com/why-some-people-can-visualize-better-than-others-5189694 https://treehousetechgroup.com/the-psychology-behind-data-visualization/ there was some studies related to why we can visualize up to a certain number of points in a shape but i couldn’t find the articles. – aella Mar 09 '23 at 19:01
2 Answers
What we see is square with four 10 inches sides or other sizes.
Not quite. You see the square, and the four sides of the square, but you don't actually see that they are 10 inches long.
One 1km-sided square seen from a distance of 10km looks the same as a 10cm-sided square seen from a distance of one meter.
Similarly, we can imagine a particular shape, but we cannot imagine a particular distance. However, we can imagine two similar shapes one larger the other smaller.
So, it seems that our perception and imagination are already relativistic. We do not perceive distances in the scientific sense, we perceive something like relative position and size.
And this seems to make it easy to imagine a square.
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The mind's job is to solve cognitive problems. "Where shall I go for lunch? Is this thermos large enough to hold all my tea? Can I form a square with the same area as this circle? Should I be concerned about coyotes in this forest?"
To solve these problems, the mind has a lot of different tricks. Forming a mental picture is a powerful trick, which can help decide where to go for lunch or whether the thermos can hold the tea, but it's not the only trick.
We might use verbal, logical, or numerical reasoning: "the cafe is more expensive than the pizza place. I can't square the circle because pi is a transcendental number."
We might rely on mere habit.
We might try to think about a general scenario by forming mental pictures of lots of different examples, observing common trends through the different examples, and then using verbal/logical reasoning to try to prove the trends always hold. This trick is useful especially in mathematics, when thinking about abstract objects such as the squares you mention.
We can say that we understand something, if we are able to easily solve "enough" cognitive problems involving that thing. For example, a person understands algebra if they can easily work out algebra problems on paper. A person understands (some aspects of) dogs if they are skilled at interacting with and caring for dogs. A veterinarian understands more aspects of dogs if they are also skilled at diagnosing and treating health problems in dogs.
So, to understand what the general concept of a square is, means that we are able to easily solve all sorts of cognitive problems involving squares, such as mathematically proving things about squares. Picturing examples of squares is often useful to this understanding, but the picture alone isn't enough; we must unify such pictures with logical, verbal thinking, including knowledge of some mathematical theorems relevant to squares, before we can say we understand the general square.
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+1 For suggesting semantic grounding of abstractions revolves around a collection of operations regarding various elements of the extension and intension of a term. – J D Mar 09 '23 at 21:49
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One of my favorite quotes: "*Thought presents alternatives. It was not meant to solve problems or decide things.*" - Zulaikha Mahmud. Relying only on the mind is perilous. – Scott Rowe Mar 10 '23 at 16:16