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I have regularly heard debate between anarcho-socialists and anarcho-capitalists about which one is the true oxymoron.

If we take anarcho-socialism to mean no government and economic equality (+ collective ownership of industry), it would seem to me that this could lead to contradictions since without government intervention economic equality could not be achieved or maintained.

Does socialism always presuppose the existence of a state? If so, that would make anarcho-socialism an oxymoronic, contradictory state of affairs. Are there any examples of socialist thought that rejects the state?

EDIT (ADDITIONAL CLARITY):

If libertarianism represents freedom from coercion to undertake certain actions and egalitarian socialism represents the duty to give excess wealth to those who "need it more", is libertarian socialism a contradiction of terms? Are these two principles intrinsically contradictory?

Hypnosifl
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    They are not oxymorons because all isms are too vague to contradict each other without questionable assumptions about how people "freely" behave. [Wikipedia's article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism) already explains in detail how anarcho-socialism, a.k.a. libertarian socialism, is supposed to work. Could you make the question more specific in the light of it? – Conifold Mar 19 '20 at 19:22
  • What does "freedom from coercion to undertake certain actions" mean? What actions specifically? Capitalist-friendly libertarianism necessarily involves violent coercion to prevent people from violating property rights (to stop someone from eating fruit from an orchard that's considered someone else's property for example), even if they acquired this property in ways that might be considered unjust or outright theft (or their ancestors did, as with seizing native american land or the [enclosure movement](https://celdf.org/the-enclosure-movement/)), see argument [here](http://archive.is/yfySJ). – Hypnosifl Mar 19 '20 at 19:45
  • Maximilien Rubel 1973 Article “Marx, theoretician of anarchism” https://www.marxists.org/archive/rubel/1973/marx-anarchism.htm – Gordon Mar 21 '20 at 05:53
  • *Libertarianism* has largely been used in the Rightist sense, especially in the United States, but was originally conceived in the Leftist sense. The same tendency, though slightly less pronounced, has appeared with *anarchism*. The Right is concerned with voluntary exchange and private ownership, the Left with dynamic collective organization. – brainchild Jun 19 '22 at 12:08

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Socialism is not intrinsically linked to a strong state, or indeed any state at all. An oxymoron is a contradiction in terms. Anarcho-monarchy would be a contradiction, as a monarchy is a form of government itself.

Socialism is not a form of government - it is simply the advocation of certain economic ideas: equality of outcome, collective ownership, etc. Within socialism, there are disagreements regarding how you achieve these outcomes (and the degree to which those outcomes should be pursued). Certain strands of socialism might exclude the prospect of anarchism, but other strands of socialism are dependent on anarchism for their very foundations.

You introduce a premise: "without government intervention economic equality could not be achieved or maintained". The rejection of this premise is foundational to anarcho-socialism. State socialists believe you need to use the power of the state to maintain a system of socialism. Anarcho-socialists believe the opposite. They believe that for the conditions of socialism to exist and thrive, you need to dismantle the state. They see the state as another power structure that promotes inequality by placing some individuals in positions of power above others. You'll find anarcho-socialists advocating for communes and self regulating systems of cooperation, rather than socialism forced upon citizens by the state.

You might say that a situation where you have equality and no state is unrealistic. If true, that wouldn't make anarcho-socialism an oxymoron, it would just make it a flawed political philosophy with limited practical applications. I don't wish to provide a list of arguments for and against the merits of self governed communes and similar anarcho-socialist ideas, as it seems to be beyond the scope of your question.

Noting your last point, where you question how you could have the "duty to give away excess wealth" at the same time as "freedom from coercion", I think you'll find it interesting to look up some anarcho-communist conceptions of human nature. Broadly speaking, anarcho-communists believe in a fundamentally cooperative human nature, which would mean that people wouldn't need to be coerced into helping others, but would help others out of a desire to maintain human relationships and to mutually benefit from shared knowledge and resources. They believe that the state and capitalism have distorted this human nature (making humans selfish and interested in producing profit) and that dismantling those systems would see a return to their more caring, cooperative natural human nature. Kropotkin's work 'Mutual Aid' is a key text in this area.

I've provided some links that might be a useful starting point in researching anarcho-socialist conceptions of human nature further:

Wikipedia: Anarcho-communism: Motivation

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy: Anarchism

Wikipedia: Marx's Theory of Human Nature

Scientific American: an article about Kropotkin

L.P. Blake
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    This answer capably reflects the goals of the SEP, at least as I understand them. Thanks, –  Sep 30 '20 at 03:02
  • I like this answer, but I might add a few ideas attempting to address directly the concerns embodied by the original post. It may be a confused caricature that equality within the economy depends on the redistributive capacity, and therefore the coercive power, of the state. Welfare states redistribute wealth attempting a more socially just outcome than the one resulting directly from markets. In a (Left) anarchist society, satisfaction of authentic human needs instead takes precedence over an artificial system of propriety appropriation of wealth that is essentially subversive to those needs. – brainchild Jun 19 '22 at 12:13
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I have regularly heard debate between anarcho-socialists and anarcho-capitalists about which one is the true oxymoron.

Well according to the history of that ideology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism

The anti-capitalist versions is the original one and preceded the Ancap term by about 100 years. Even when considering the difference between individualist anarchists and collectivist anarchists, neither would be too fond of the anarcho-capitalist and vice versa:

While anarcho-capitalism is sometimes described as a form of individualist anarchism, many others disagree with this as individualist anarchism is largely socialistic. Murray Rothbard, the founder of anarcho-capitalism, argued that individualist anarchism is different from anarcho-capitalism and other capitalist theories due to the individualist anarchists retaining the labor theory of value and socialist economics.

They operate with radically different definitions of what anarchism is, "classical anarchism" rejects any social hierarchy where people subjugate others and aim to dismantle those. Whereas Ancaps only target "the state" which they apparently largely characterize as influence on the market. So while for classical anarchists economic liberty is defined by equal ownership of the economy or at least equal access to economic resources and the ability to decide that, anarcho-capitalism is just concerned with the market and sees no problem in the economic ownership of some freedom of some leading to the total lack of economic agency and the purely theoretical economic freedom of the other.

So for all intents and purposes anarcho-capitalism is primarily concerned with capitalism and has no connection to anything related with anarchism.

If we take anarcho-socialism to mean no government and economic equality (+ collective ownership of industry), it would seem to me that this could lead to contradictions since without government intervention economic equality could not be achieved or maintained.

Afaik that's what the social ownership of the industry is meant for. Like usually the large discrepancy comes from the owner pocketing the most, whereas if everyone is an owner they can simply vote to split that more evenly. So ideally you wouldn't need "redistribution" if you're already dealing with it on the level of the production/distribution.

And the other thing is that you could argue that a huge discrepancy of stuff could be more likely to produce theft a) because there are people who don't have enough and b) because there are people who have so much that the risk/reward calculation ends up being positive. Whereas if people have roughly equal amounts of stuff, there's not much to gain.

Does socialism always presuppose the existence of a state? If so, that would make anarcho-socialism an oxymoronic, contradictory state of affairs. Are there any examples of socialist thought that rejects the state?

Technically no. Though socialism encompasses a lot of ideas and movements and some of them do propose a state, either temporarily or permanent and some don't. But primarily it's workers owning the means of production, so that could be done, at least theoretically, directly without the necessity for a state.

If libertarianism represents freedom from coercion to undertake certain actions and egalitarian socialism represents the duty to give excess wealth to those who "need it more", is libertarian socialism a contradiction of terms? Are these two principles intrinsically contradictory?

It's not about taking away excess it's about socializing production. So ideally there is no huge excess that accumulates with a small group of people. At least that is the idea.

The "giving away the excess to the poor" is usually following a different strategy. It's somewhere between a push and pull in terms of control over the economy. Like one could argue that the unequal production and redistribution is some meta level democratic ownership of the economy where the economic actors can make their own decisions but the results are shared among the constituents. Or you could argue that those with excessive stuff just rather give away stuff, then their ability to produce even more excessive stuff for themselves. So some call it socialism because of the former, while others argue it's still capitalism because of the latter, though it's somewhat of a different idea.

haxor789
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