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I'm current studying RSL Music Theory grades and I'm stuck on a grade 6 question.

The question asks to write out two enharmonic equivalent notes to the note provided using sharps, flats, double-sharps and double-flats. The given staff does not show a key signature.

I got through all of the questions fairly easily with the exception of one in which the given note is Ab. Obviously G# is an enharmonic but I'm struggling to think of a second enharmonic??

The only other notes either side would be "B flat, double-flat" or "F sharp double-sharp" - given that the stave in the question doesn't show a key signature, I'm not sure that this is possible?

any ideas?

Update: here's a picture of the question - the text reads:

Add two enharmonically equivalent notes to those below. The result should be three notes of the same pitch on each stave, and each will be enharmonically spelled differently.

Also, just for clarification, triple sharps/flats aren't taught in the syllabus and, as this is a G6 workbook, there is an assumption that knowledge of anything beyond double sharps/flats isn't available.

RSL G6 music theory

Dom
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dazzathedrummer
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  • I agree, a picture would be nice, just to doublecheck. Otherwise, there's no other way to spell Ab with double-sharps or -flats. Is it possible they're not necessarily asking for *enharmonic* equivalence, but just equivalence? In other words, are they also testing understanding of 8vb, etc.? – Richard Jul 05 '16 at 10:03
  • From memory the word 'enharmonic' is definitely used, otherwise, yes, octave markings could be used. I'll take a pic tonight when I get home. From memory, it shows a stave with a bass clef and no key signature with a 1/4 note in the first space preceded by a flat. I was studying at 6am this morning - so I may well have mis-read the question - update later. – dazzathedrummer Jul 05 '16 at 10:08
  • I don't know what you mean by "RSL", but the ABRSM theory syllabus certainly does *not* include triple sharps and flats. But grade 6 *does* include C clefs, so it's possible you didn't spot the correct clef and the given note really does have two alternative enharmonic spellings. –  Jul 05 '16 at 12:11
  • RSL is the newly rebranded name for what used to be Rockschool (Rock School Ltd). The syllabus doesn't include triple sharps/flats. I don't think C Clefs are included either - but I will double check! – dazzathedrummer Jul 05 '16 at 12:17
  • @dazzathedrummer that's a Ab, you are correct on that point. But, there is no other enharmonic equivalent besides G#, without using triple accidentals. Can you ask your professor or something if this is a mistake? There are mistakes on books all the time – Shevliaskovic Jul 06 '16 at 09:48
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    I'm going to contact RSL on this - I'm teaching myself which is why I posted the question up here. I'm guessing it's either a mistake or octave notation should be used. – dazzathedrummer Jul 06 '16 at 09:56

5 Answers5

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Triple flats and sharps do exist. They are extremely rare (never seen one in a piece myself), but theoretically you can use them. My guess is that the answer would be B triple flat or F triple sharp.

Here is an example I found with a triple sharp:

enter image description here

I found it on this website, where you can read some stuff about triple accidentals.

And another example with a triple flat:

enter image description here

Again from the same website.

Wikipedia mentions triple sharps as well:

enter image description here

Shevliaskovic
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  • Can't think why it would be technically necessary, though... That flats example has the key sig. of C/Am, so those triple - and double flats don't need writing as such - do they? – Tim Jul 05 '16 at 10:41
  • How strange. The triple sharp there *sort of* makes sense; it's functioning as an appoggiatura to the leading tone Gx in A# minor. (But why it wasn't written Bb minor, I don't know.) The triple flats seem excessive, but it might make a *little* bit more sense in a larger context. – Richard Jul 05 '16 at 11:09
  • Tripple *flats* or *sharps* doesn't make sense in practice. If you need them, you would do better changing the key signature. Even if you use a key that requires ugly writting, there is the option to use an enharmonic key signature (e.g. G-flat major instead of F-sharp major); Beethoven does this in a few bars of his Sonata op. 110 (first movement, development). – George Jul 05 '16 at 11:47
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    @George that is why I used phrases like `extremely rare` and `theoretically` – Shevliaskovic Jul 05 '16 at 12:04
  • Triple sharps/flats are not included in the syllabus for the grades that I'm studying. – dazzathedrummer Jul 05 '16 at 12:18
  • @dazzathedrummer it doesn't really matter as they are completely valid for writing any kind of enharmonic equivalent and it is the only way you will get more than one enharmonic equivalent. – Dom Jul 05 '16 at 12:24
  • It matters in as much as triples are not taught in the syllabus and therefore cannot be part of the answer. – dazzathedrummer Jul 05 '16 at 12:41
  • @dazzathedrummer if you cannot use them, there is no other equivalent here. There might be a mistake in the book or you understood something wrong – Shevliaskovic Jul 05 '16 at 12:53
  • Yes, I will come back to this later with a picture of the question - probably an extremely simple explanation that I've failed to spot! – dazzathedrummer Jul 05 '16 at 12:57
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    @Shevliaskovic My comment stating that triple accidentals doesn't make sense *in practice* was meant to expand your answer. Do you feel it contradicts it? If so, let me know and I will update it, since that is not the meaning it should read, I think. – George Jul 05 '16 at 13:10
  • @dazzathedrummer in the context of music in general it does not. No teacher /grader in their right mind would take off for using something that is correct but "not in the syllabus ". – Dom Jul 05 '16 at 14:02
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    Triple b/# may well exist, but the OP states that the question says 'using single or double b/#, so triples couldn't be an answer to it. – Tim Jul 05 '16 at 14:19
  • @George: While one should generally resolve triple sharps/flats, or key signatures with double sharps/flats, before one tries to publish a piece or print it out for performance, being able to accommodate excessive numbers of sharps/flats may make it easier to handle situations where a large section of a piece of music is transposed and then smaller sections are transposed again. If one of those portions would use triple sharps/flats after the first transposition but not after the second, it should likely not be converted to an enharmonic key. – supercat Jul 05 '16 at 16:51
  • Please check out my edit to this answer. You did well to get so many upvotes, even though this answer couldn't have been the correct one, given the parameters of RSL grade IV ! – Tim Jul 11 '16 at 13:41
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    @Tim The parameters aren't going to matter to anyone else especially since the test (hopefully) won't make the mistake again. Someone could actually want to know about using other enharmonic equivalents for Ab/G# which this answer then is the only useful one in the long term. – Dom Jul 11 '16 at 19:24
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It's a mistake in the book!!

I just got an email back from RSL, the question is on the use of sharps/flats and double sharps/flats. 8va/vb notation was not supposed to be tested in this question and triple sharps/flats are outside of the syllabus.

I've been informed that future versions of the book will now show an A rather than an Ab.

Phew!

dazzathedrummer
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3

Is it perhaps a mistake in the clef? If that was a treble clef then you would be looking at an F flat which does have two enharmonic equivalents

JimM
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On the assumption it's not written in treble or bass clef, but C clef instead, and you guessed it was treble, the Ab note would actually be a Bb. This then is enharmonically the same as A#, and also Cbb. That obviates the need for any (dubious in my opinion) bbb or #x.

Otherwise, the only notes with 3 enharmonic names are Ax/B/Cb; B#/C/Dbb; Dx/E/Fb; E#/F/Gbb, without going into 3#/b.

I'm going to be so bold as to say it wasn't an Ab. Or if it was, it's a non-question! Does happen...

EDIT - realised some more! D/Cx/Ebb; G/Fx/Abb and A/Gx/Bbb.

NEXT EDIT - the question would make sense if the clef was treble rather than bass, as that note becomes Fb.

LAST EDIT (I hope) - realised even more!! Eb/D#/Fbb; Bb/A#/Cbb; Gb/F#/Ex; Db/C#/Bx.So it may appear that actually the ONLY one which has just two names is the ONE IN THE QUESTION!!!

FINAL EDIT!!! - the correct answers are Gx and Bbb, because the actual question SHOULD have shown an A natural. RSL informed me just now that it is a typo.

Richard
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Tim
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I'm adding a new answer on account of the updated original question. Here are the only possibilities I can think of:

enter image description here

The initial G-sharp is obvious, and it's exactly what you already have. The remaining two G-sharps indicate the exact same pitch, just one with an 8vb (one octave below) marking, the other with a 15mb (two octaves below).

If you've covered 8vb and/or 15mb in your studies, I'd say go with those. Otherwise, I'm betting there's an error in the exercise, and you should probably ask your instructor for clarification.

Edit: If you're not working with an instructor, then hopefully I can speak for everyone here when I say: it's an error!

Richard
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