I'm currently writing a sonata, and if I write the first movement normally with exposition, development and recap, but in 3/4 time and with that typical mm-BAP-BAP rhythm, would you still consider it as sonata form or would you call it a waltz? The second movement is just slow variations on one theme, and the third is a rondo.
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Potential duplicate (or the reverse question, I guess?): [How does Sonata Form fit into a Waltz?](https://music.stackexchange.com/questions/91703/how-does-sonata-form-fit-into-a-waltz) – Andy Bonner Jan 13 '22 at 13:39
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A waltz is a type of dance, but need not be a specific musical form — although Chopin and Brahms, for example, used forms for their waltzes. A sonata is a musical form. So the two are not mutually exclusive. In fact, you might take a look at Chopin's waltz's in particular, because they might lend themselves to an expansion into a sonata form, either as a single sonata-allegro movement or as a multi-movement expansion.
Aaron
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I’d even say that the term "Sonata" has pretty much graduated from being a form and is nowadays merely a term to convey a certain importance or grandeur. – Lazy Jan 13 '22 at 11:49
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@Lazy - The scores I've found on Musescore's website that are called "Sonata" yet do not adhere to that form tend to come off as slight and unimportant to me (partially because of their shorter length on average compared to scores called "Sonata" that actually are in sonata form). – Dekkadeci Jan 13 '22 at 13:17
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@Lazy I'd say, instead, that the word "Sonata" has several meanings as it relates to form, and is also sometimes misused. As Aaron hints, it can be the form *of* a single movement (especially as shorthand for "sonata-allegro form," *or* a multi-movement work (e.g. "Sonata no 1 for violin and piano"), typically with a first movement *in* sonata form. As [Wikipedia says](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonata), "Sonata is a vague term, with varying meanings depending on the context and time period." I see no reason that a waltz shouldn't be the third movement of a Romantic-era sonata— – Andy Bonner Jan 13 '22 at 13:37
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@AndyBonner Fair point, but in the OPs case I’d still suppose that calling something sonata is not bound to any form nowadays. By the way the forms we find are conventions. People did not compose to fit a form but rather they adopted working recipes. When the term "sonata" came up in the intermediate time between Renaissance and Baroque era it had no special form what so ever (it was just a term to specify a non vocal piece). And even the forms adopted in baroque music were quite different to what we nowadays call "sonata form". – Lazy Jan 13 '22 at 17:06
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@Dekkadeci musescore.com is not really a good resource for such things. Mostly you’ll find there reengravings of really popular works (mostly classical and romantic) and modern compositions of variable skill and effort. Look up sonatas from the baroque period or sonatas from the 20th and 21st century and you will find many important examples that are not in sonata form. – Lazy Jan 13 '22 at 17:18
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@Lazy - The Musescore.com examples I brought up are purely from the 21st century, contributed by users. What examples can you name of single-movement "sonatas" from the 20th century or later that are in none of the Baroque and/or Classical sonata forms that weren't first published on Musescore.com, Noteflight, Soundcloud, and/or Youtube, especially those from the 21st century? The only ones I can think of are by Scriabin. (All of the Prokofiev single-movement piano sonatas are in sonata-allegro form, and so is the Kapustin Sonatina, Op. 100.) – Dekkadeci Jan 14 '22 at 13:00
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@Dekkadeci Why are we suddenly talking about single movement sonatas? But if that is what you want: How about Berg op. 1? Of course, having only one movement can be seen as deviation from most sonata forms in itself. Also there is not really a "baroque sonata form", and many of the more recent sonatas that are considered as adhering to the sonata form (such as Prokofiew &c.) are not really classical sonata forms, but rather modern takes on the form. – Lazy Jan 14 '22 at 18:46
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@Lazy - I'm letting multi-movement sonatas off the hook because I've played and listened to some sorry excuses for Classical-era multi-movement sonatas (e.g. the Beethoven 2-movement piano sonatas, at least one Haydn piano sonata has only 2 movements). If those count as sonatas, why doesn't any multi-movement work named "sonata" with some consistency in keys and some attempt at contrast other than keys between movements? – Dekkadeci Jan 14 '22 at 19:48
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@Lazy - I'm being lenient and letting any sonata da camera and sonata da chiesa (both Baroque forms) call themselves "sonata". – Dekkadeci Jan 14 '22 at 19:51
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@Dekkadeci In Baroque music lots of things were called "sonata". And I do not think it is your position to allow them to do so. I am pretty sure that almost any classical era sonata has multiple movements, with earlier ones tending for three, later ones for four movements. – Lazy Jan 14 '22 at 22:12